What makes values/morals in games such a conflict?

A game is as much a medium of expression as a book or movie. In olden times, good values were common, because society respected good values.

Now any type of good values expressed in games is looked at as religious.

What type of game should I make? Well, if I want it to be popular, I have to appeal to the mass opinion, which is at least some bit of violence or sexual reference? That would be a product of society.

Or maybe I should make the game I want to make, and make it for my sake, irrespective of the potential backlash?

In my opinion, a game with good morals and values doesn't have to be preachy. At most I would aim for a, "hmmm."

If you respond, please state your case plainly. Please don't get too emotional. Just want a discussion.

In olden times, good values were common, because society respected good values.

I think you are overestimating the past some what; plenty of things which weren't "good values" were done and some which people would say where 'good' is them talking as a product of their age. You might want to take your rose tinted glasses off and look back at the olden times again.

As for the rest of your question... no idea what you are on about so I'm out.

What makes values/morals in games such a conflict?

They are?

A game is as much a medium of expression as a book or movie. In olden times, good values were common, because society respected good values.

Now any type of good values expressed in games is looked at as religious.

I can think of a number of books and movies that are looked at as religious; the example that comes to mind which covers both mediums is The Chronicles of Narnia. I love both the books and the movies, but I wouldn't say they're merely expressing values; they're religious, it is an aspect of their being. Whether or not that's a good thing depends on your audience.

What type of game should I make? Well, if I want it to be popular, I have to appeal to the mass opinion, which is at least some bit of violence or sexual reference?

No, not at all.

Or maybe I should make the game I want to make, and make it for my sake, irrespective of the potential backlash?

Yes, always.

You might want to take your rose tinted glasses off and look back at the olden times again.

I guess I should have commented that good values were common "in media," regardless of how "not good" the history of the people has actually been.

I also agree that good values weren't ubiquitous, though they may have been admired by the elite (even as they were very immoral in other areas).

Take King Arthur legends, for instance. They hold up some virtues, but also give implicit approval of adultery and revenge-based murder, arrogance, theft, pride, deceit, and so on.

Anyway, if you are wanting to look at morals in games, read up on Ultima IV, which was one of the first games to explore the subject.

Also, KOTOR superficially explores morality (Dark-side Jedi vs Light-side Jedi) through player dialogue choices. Though it didn't do too great of a job, you can still learn from it by observing its strengths and weaknesses, and considering how you might improve it.

A game is as much a medium of expression as a book or movie

That`s just one way of saying it, another way of calling it is that movies and books, like games, are a simulation of reality. There are simulations for different ages: ranging from children to adults. Simulations for adults include violence be it games, books or movies.

That`s just one way of saying it, another way of calling it is that movies and books, like games, are a simulation of reality

Good point. They can just as well be simulations of reality. They can be many things. One thing that gets me some times with the more "moral" books or movies and such is that they gloss over the reality of the situation.

For instance, how could you make a moral movie about the holocaust and have it really hit home without showing the violence and reality of the situation?

For the sake of a PG rating you cut out the reality?

Morality movie about war without portraying the soldiers in the way they actually were?

It is a very touchy subject any way you cut it.

Anyway, if you are wanting to look at morals in games, read up on Ultima IV, which was one of the first games to explore the subject.

Interesting concept. It is one thing to explore the subject, and another to make a statement. There are a bunch of statements in games (especially in Metal Gear Solid). I mean, if I was making a statement in it, I wonder if it would be as well received.

For instance, many action movies justify violence as a means to revenge after a problem occurs. Few suggest wiser non-violent ways.

So the idea for the game is that your typical weapons are taken away (guns, knives, bombs) and you have to use other means to solve that dispute. Strategy game.

The concept being that avoiding conflict is the object of the game, or rather, dealing with conflict in a way that is uncommonly non-violent.

So the idea for the game is that your typical weapons are taken away (guns, knives, bombs) and you have to use other means to solve that dispute. Strategy game.

The concept being that avoiding conflict is the object of the game, or rather, dealing with conflict in a way that is uncommonly non-violent.

For less "making a statement" and more "making a game without violence", StarWars: Droid Works explicitly was trying to make a fun game without resorting to guns or swords, and created an enjoyable puzzle game where you build robots and lead them through obstacle-course like levels. You might look at that game for ideas on the gameplay side. Portal series is kinda in the same vein, as well as Antichamber.

Thanks Servant. It does give me some ideas already. I will have to be very creative. For now I am making more sports-like games. Objective is nothing more than get the most points. I am also currently working on a noir style mystery puzzle game. Also have made a few "beat the clock" games.

Also, this list of game theory games might help.

Perhaps the "Cake Cutting" game would be a good start?

Interesting Find: