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Making a weapon feel powerful.

Started by June 21, 2014 02:29 PM
22 comments, last by JLW 10 years, 7 months ago


Gunshots do not sound metallic, they sound like bombs going off.

Just a tiny counter nitpick if we're going super realistic: Gunshots can sound pretty different for the shooter, then for anyone standing next to it in my limited experience...

I remember trying the m16 once, and all I could hear while shooting it was the spring in the stock... Made it sound like I was using a toy gun.

That combined with the plastic "toy" feel of it made me kind of loose my respect for it biggrin.png

But the same is true for anything I've fired (mostly military stuff), there is a lot of sounds from the mechanism mixed into the explosion sound.

Or just general rattle from every part of it, like for an ak47...

Though, I used ear protection of course... quite a different thing without it.

But in any case, with this level of realism, I assume you just want to use actual high quality samples of the actual guns firing or some gun close to it in model.

I don't think you should go for trying to give people problems with hearing or neighbours by mixing the sound level too "relistic" in volume. Better then to simulate it in-game with reduced volume on atmospheric sound, ringing, blurry vision etc.

For a good example of, for example, what the Lee-Enfield rifle sounds like, here's what a No.4 Mk. II sounds like:

(Skip to 2:00 for the shooting. His second shot misses the metal target, that's the best example I can find.) Now, see, there's no metallic noise shooting a Lee-Enfield, and if you're not wearing hearing protection AND holding directly on to most rifles, you can't hear the mechanism over the blast. I know what you mean with the AR15, I had the same experience when shooting it, but when I wasn't the one firing it was impossible to hear the mechanism.

As for the volume, it's absolutely going to be extremely loud. Other sounds will be slightly muted in response, and to enhance the effect of the (actually quite limited volume) of the user's speakers, but it's going to be as loud as it can be. The player can use in-game hearing protection to help mitigate this, quieting all sounds somewhat and louder sounds by more, or they can just turn down the game's volume. As long as the first time they fire the gun it's loud enough to take them off-guard, the point has been made.

And as a major fan of the Ak-47, and having shot it more than any other gun, it does not rattle. It's not a crappy little slapped-together piece of scrap metal, the only sounds are its shot and its (unusually loud and strange sounding) mechanism. It does sound a bit weird, but it certainly doesn't rattle.

There's two of us on this account. Jeremy contributes on design posts, Justin does everything else, including replying on those threads. Jeremy is not a people person, so it's Justin you'll be talking to at any given time.

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And as a major fan of the Ak-47, and having shot it more than any other gun, it does not rattle. It's not a crappy little slapped-together piece of scrap metal, the only sounds are its shot and its (unusually loud and strange sounding) mechanism. It does sound a bit weird, but it certainly doesn't rattle.

Hehe, hope I didn't offend. I've just fired it once. The gun I mostly compare it to is the swedish AK5, and it has a lot more "solid" feel to the whole design.

Most of my gun experience is from the (at the time) mandatory military service in the swedish army.

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And as a major fan of the Ak-47, and having shot it more than any other gun, it does not rattle. It's not a crappy little slapped-together piece of scrap metal, the only sounds are its shot and its (unusually loud and strange sounding) mechanism. It does sound a bit weird, but it certainly doesn't rattle.

Hehe, hope I didn't offend. I've just fired it once. The gun I mostly compare it to is the swedish AK5, and it has a lot more "solid" feel to the whole design.

Most of my gun experience is from the (at the time) mandatory military service in the swedish army.

I've spent time firing just about every major AK model. The Ak-47, AKM, Ak-74, Ak-101 and Ak-104 were the ones I remember by name, but there were others. Of them, the AKM was my favourite, but the Ak-104 was my second choice and the Ak-47 was still damned good. The Ak-74 was nice and light, basically no recoil either, but it couldn't stop a man if he was sedated beforehand and the Ak-101 is a bit heavier and not much better in power,

There's two of us on this account. Jeremy contributes on design posts, Justin does everything else, including replying on those threads. Jeremy is not a people person, so it's Justin you'll be talking to at any given time.

Aelsif's Patreon.

I'm not coming from weapons firing experience, I'm coming from gaming and game design experience. Weapons that have a metallic sound in the games I've played sound heavier to me, as if the mechanism to move the ammo can be heard over the explosion it makes the gun seem just as powerful as the shot it fires and the added bass allows the player to feel the shot as much as hear it. The other way to go is the way of sounding like close by thunder for more energy based weapons.

As far as stun lock, the trick would be to blend movement with the hit animation (based on where the shot lands of course) then follow up with AI for the unit to find cover using a damaged state movement (like a desperate dash or a lifeless dive for cover). Its important that the timing between shots and the movement for a character to evade is well spaced to ensure pacing. If the weapon is meant to feel strong, then characters and environment should react appropriately to the weapons power. The numbers offered above seem useful if those are the animations you want to use. I've always hated the flinch animation most games use when characters get shot. When I unload a light automatic into an enemy and it does two or three flinch animations then a death animation, it drives me bonkers. I like to see characters(who still have an intact brain) think about the damage I just did to them and move appropriately to the pain and suffering I've cause by using such a sloppy weapon. Seems like every enemy in every game out there is morphed up and tweaking on adrenaline, its boring. I want to see the effects of my weapons and the only time I don't want to see it is when I've hit the mark. If I've done my job, the enemy crumples.

With particle work, all that matters is that the player thinks it looks right. This will all depend on the weapons design. A couple games that really sell the "feel" of powerful weapons are Gears of War(obviously) and Warhammer Space Marine IMO. As for heat warble, smoke and the likes, each gun should be just as much a character in the game as the NPCs and enemies the player faces. Think about each gun and its history, give it meaningful interesting and useful quirks, even with the most standard weapons, it'll be worth it.

As for knockback it depends on what the weapon's ammo(type) is doing against the type of surface its hitting. Obviously penetration is only going to create knockback if the character becomes mindful of the shot, possibly falling back after realizing they are beaten. But a few successive rifle shots against an armored target should push them back (especially if the shots are high). Even grazes and shots that connect with the shoulders should cause characters to reel back to A)create a smaller silhouette to land a second shot on and B)to inform the player of where the shot landed. This is all just visual feedback. The character could flash red if you want but in the end the player needs to know they've connected their shot with the target and a knockback allows the pacing to change. As the player checks whether the shot has finished the job.

Key word in video games in my opinion is video. Successive images to depict movement. The more you explore movement and its meaning in your game the more you're exploring the element that separates video games from any other number crunching card, board, dice games, etc.

I'm not coming from weapons firing experience, I'm coming from gaming and game design experience. Weapons that have a metallic sound in the games I've played sound heavier to me, as if the mechanism to move the ammo can be heard over the explosion it makes the gun seem just as powerful as the shot it fires and the added bass allows the player to feel the shot as much as hear it. The other way to go is the way of sounding like close by thunder for more energy based weapons.


The issue is, a lot of people have guns. They've fired guns. They know what a gun sounds like. It irks them to hear a gun making a sound that is very much not the sound of a gun.

And the actual sound made by most guns is awe-inspiring anyway, so if it's a gun why not stick with the sound it really makes?

As far as stun lock, the trick would be to blend movement with the hit animation (based on where the shot lands of course) then follow up with AI for the unit to find cover using a damaged state movement (like a desperate dash or a lifeless dive for cover). Its important that the timing between shots and the movement for a character to evade is well spaced to ensure pacing. If the weapon is meant to feel strong, then characters and environment should react appropriately to the weapons power. The numbers offered above seem useful if those are the animations you want to use. I've always hated the flinch animation most games use when characters get shot. When I unload a light automatic into an enemy and it does two or three flinch animations then a death animation, it drives me bonkers. I like to see characters(who still have an intact brain) think about the damage I just did to them and move appropriately to the pain and suffering I've cause by using such a sloppy weapon. Seems like every enemy in every game out there is morphed up and tweaking on adrenaline, its boring. I want to see the effects of my weapons and the only time I don't want to see it is when I've hit the mark. If I've done my job, the enemy crumples.


There's a lot here that just doesn't fit the kind of game this is. Killing enemies here takes time, the fights are longer and recovery from your injuries is so slow you can't even really consider it. Your enemies are dangerous for a long time, even after being fatally wounded, in much the way a real living thing it. You may, for instance, see a bear a hundred metres off, fatally wound it with your rifle, then get mauled to death by the dying animal before it bleeds out. In a less extreme (and much more likely, since a bear is a big fast clumsy thing that can't slow down or turn easy and is quite avoidable on foot, not to mention you have a full magazine if you have any sense) example, you might shoot a trog in the head with your pistol, then end up wrestling with it until the blood loss gets to it. This fundamentally changes how the game is designed, and how the animations really reflect what your doing should change with it.

With particle work, all that matters is that the player thinks it looks right. This will all depend on the weapons design. A couple games that really sell the "feel" of powerful weapons are Gears of War(obviously) and Warhammer Space Marine IMO. As for heat warble, smoke and the likes, each gun should be just as much a character in the game as the NPCs and enemies the player faces. Think about each gun and its history, give it meaningful interesting and useful quirks, even with the most standard weapons, it'll be worth it.

Every gun is already meant to be meaningfully different, but unlike Gears or Warhammer we can have have powerful and unique weapons that are NOT ridiculous.

As for knockback it depends on what the weapon's ammo(type) is doing against the type of surface its hitting. Obviously penetration is only going to create knockback if the character becomes mindful of the shot, possibly falling back after realizing they are beaten. But a few successive rifle shots against an armored target should push them back (especially if the shots are high). Even grazes and shots that connect with the shoulders should cause characters to reel back to A)create a smaller silhouette to land a second shot on and B)to inform the player of where the shot landed.


No. It. Doesn't. Any weapon with enough momentum to send somebody back at any significant speed would do just as much, realistically by far more, to its user. There is no push when hit with a bullet, even if it transfers every scrap of momentum, because if there was enough momentum for it to push a target the weapon would be unusable. Spreading it out over several shots doesn't make this any less ludicrous from a physics perspective. The ONLY weapons you could realistically knock people around with are melee weapons, and even then it's not likely since you'd need to throw enough momentum into a hit to knock an enemy down, and that means getting yourself moving pretty fast, which is hard to pull off since you telegraph your attack so far in advance no enemy could fail to get out of the way.

This is all just visual feedback. The character could flash red if you want but in the end the player needs to know they've connected their shot with the target and a knockback allows the pacing to change. As the player checks whether the shot has finished the job.


You seem to be neglecting just about everything about the game to make this argument for knockback. This doesn't fit at all. Knockback conflicts with the game's combat style, genre, tone and purpose. Knockback is flat-out wrong for this game in every sense. There's no way it benefits the game.

Key word in video games in my opinion is video. Successive images to depict movement. The more you explore movement and its meaning in your game the more you're exploring the element that separates video games from any other number crunching card, board, dice games, etc.


This is a complete non-sequitor.

There's two of us on this account. Jeremy contributes on design posts, Justin does everything else, including replying on those threads. Jeremy is not a people person, so it's Justin you'll be talking to at any given time.

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I am not a gun expert myself, but I have fired a few. I feel that you have 3 options:

  • Go for impressive effect (more gamey, less realistic)
  • Go for realistic (you don't have much wiggle room for making it seem more powerful)
  • Make it feel the same, even if it isn't the same

The third option is a bit of a hybrid. The reason I say this is that even a high end computer can't replicate the experience of firing a gun. They are beyond loud. The sound and kick is very visceral. A direct recording will always seem weak. Soup up the sound and graphics beyond realism to the point where the weapon seems as powerful as the real thing. It's your choice where you want to make the compromises.

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I guess there is no need to argue if it "doesn't fit the game design" or the "realism" your trying to recreate. But the reason for my non-sequitor is to push the point that the best way to show off the power of a ranged weapon is to show off the results of it's power.

Seems like all you have left is post effects. Blurring, fuzz the HUD, play with Z depth, etc. Given that you're using a ranged weapon you could look at the particles on the enemy as well, exploring the "pink mist" if you will. Best of luck with your modern shooter.

I guess there is no need to argue if it "doesn't fit the game design" or the "realism" your trying to recreate.


Good. Then let's not return to this.

But the reason for my non-sequitor is to push the point that the best way to show off the power of a ranged weapon is to show off the results of it's power.


See, you didn't tie it together, or thst might have made sense the first time.

Seems like all you have left is post effects. Blurring, fuzz the HUD, play with Z depth, etc. Given that you're using a ranged weapon you could look at the particles on the enemy as well, exploring the "pink mist" if you will.


Already mentioned this.

Best of luck with your modern shooter.


Okay. Now I'm pissed. Why do people assume every game with guns is automatically another fucking CoD clone? I'm really sick of this shit. Just because this game has guns does NOT mean it's another copy+paste ludicrously unrealistic, proudly jingoistic, blatantly racist hallway simulator with NO self-awareness for violent, paranoid, right-wing shut-ins with no capacity for higher reasoning. QUIT making that assumption. This is NOT a "modern shooter". This is a SURVIVAL game. I have SAID THIS already. I will NOT say it again.

I am not a gun expert myself, but I have fired a few. I feel that you have 3 options:

  • Go for impressive effect (more gamey, less realistic)
  • Go for realistic (you don't have much wiggle room for making it seem more powerful)
  • Make it feel the same, even if it isn't the same
The third option is a bit of a hybrid. The reason I say this is that even a high end computer can't replicate the experience of firing a gun. They are beyond loud. The sound and kick is very visceral. A direct recording will always seem weak. Soup up the sound and graphics beyond realism to the point where the weapon seems as powerful as the real thing. It's your choice where you want to make the compromises.

Or I can, maybe, get a recording of the real thing with echo, ( movie style, but it fits since you would get echo realistically out there) and crank the volume until it becomes alarmingly loud.

I think that's somewhere between #2 and #3.

There's two of us on this account. Jeremy contributes on design posts, Justin does everything else, including replying on those threads. Jeremy is not a people person, so it's Justin you'll be talking to at any given time.

Aelsif's Patreon.


What are some good, general ways to make a weapon feel very powerful without changing its practical effect on the target?

This is the question you posed to the forum.

Several people have tried to answer it, and it's unfortunate you don't feel like any of the standard ways are good enough for your game.


Or I can, maybe, get a recording of the real thing with echo, ( movie style, but it fits since you would get echo realistically out there) and crank the volume until it becomes alarmingly loud.

The "problem" here is that sound has the same issue that graphics has on a computer.

It never is realistic. It will never be more then an approximation of the real thing.

It's not really practical to play a sound that should sound exactly like a gunshot, unless you make sure the player has an insane sound rig, and even then it would be very hard to get the sharpness of a real gunshot.

It will mostly just sound like a crackling mess.

So just as with graphics, you do it as best as you can, and do various "tricks" to compensate.

It's no longer strictly realistic, but it "feels" better, and can even feel more realistic then the alternative.

What are some good, general ways to make a weapon feel very powerful without changing its practical effect on the target?


This is the question you posed to the forum.
Several people have tried to answer it, and it's unfortunate you don't feel like any of the standard ways are good enough for your game.
Not quite. See, I already thought of all the standard ways. Because they're, you know, standard. And I'm using most of them. The only non-standard things were knockback, which I didn't accept, and making the weapon bigger, which is a non-option. I'm not rejecting those arbitrarily, they're bad ideas. And every good idea so far I already thought of because they're industry standard.

Or I can, maybe, get a recording of the real thing with echo, ( movie style, but it fits since you would get echo realistically out there) and crank the volume until it becomes alarmingly loud.


The "problem" here is that sound has the same issue that graphics has on a computer.
It never is realistic. It will never be more then an approximation of the real thing.
It's not really practical to play a sound that should sound exactly like a gunshot, unless you make sure the player has an insane sound rig, and even then it would be very hard to get the sharpness of a real gunshot.
It will mostly just sound like a crackling mess.

So just as with graphics, you do it as best as you can, and do various "tricks" to compensate.

It's no longer strictly realistic, but it "feels" better, and can even feel more realistic then the alternative.
Well, if nothing else, I can just surf through a sound library of rifle sounds until I get a good approximation, then tweak to taste and crank the volume. As long as it doesn't sound too off, it shouldn't be a problem.

There's two of us on this account. Jeremy contributes on design posts, Justin does everything else, including replying on those threads. Jeremy is not a people person, so it's Justin you'll be talking to at any given time.

Aelsif's Patreon.

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