I am the opposite. I can keep track of all my CD, SD cards, cartridges. I still have my snes, n64, gamecube, xbox, xbox 360, and wii games in one area: my shelf. I love physical media, it needs to be in my hands. I don't want my whole life to depend on my internet connection. Its easy, insert media and play. Much faster than installing as well.

Man... I'm definitely looking forward to having digital copies available for the same price on the same day as the physical release. I've lost probably half a dozen games due to kids scratching discs beyond recovery. Plus I hate having to deal with game store employees. No, I do NOT want to pre-order anything.

Plenty of my friends like to trade games in for store credit, and essentially buy new ones with that credit. That won't be possible anymore, and the shops' business will suffer for it. You may not care, but it's Microsoft who'll be reaping what would have been their profits. Does no one see this as a bit too greedy?

Have you ever been to Gamestop? Have you ever tried to buy a new game, only to have them try to push a "like new used game for $5 less" off on you? Gamestop does this because their profit margin on it is huge.

And do you know how much money the developer makes on each used sale? Zilch. Used games are exactly the same thing as piracy when it comes to developers making money.

Gamestop has for years been deliberately harming new sales by aggressively pushing used. Whereas the developer makes more money when there are no used games, who makes money on used games? Just Gamestop, which is a parasite that contributes nothing useful.

Meanwhile, on pc, you have Steam. Steam games are cheaper than console games and new games regularly go on firehouse sales. I've picked up six month old titles for $20 on Steam. You will never see that on consoles ATM, and that is specifically because of the used market.

This new system is much better for developers and it will be better for people who actually buy a lot of new games. It will be worse for people who mostly buy used games, but they may as well just go pirate their games anyway, for all they contribute to the useful parts of the industry. The only group that truly suffers here is Gamestop.

BladeOfWraith, on 08 Jun 2013 - 13:36, said:

Olliepm, on 28 May 2013 - 13:06, said:
Plenty of my friends like to trade games in for store credit, and essentially buy new ones with that credit. That won't be possible anymore, and the shops' business will suffer for it. You may not care, but it's Microsoft who'll be reaping what would have been their profits. Does no one see this as a bit too greedy?

Have you ever been to Gamestop? Have you ever tried to buy a new game, only to have them try to push a "like new used game for $5 less" off on you? Gamestop does this because their profit margin on it is huge.

not sure where you live, but the gamestop's around me(read 2 of them), have never pushed used copys on me. maybe the guys behind the counter at yours are more invested in the stores success?

You somehow missed the part about being able to resell those games or give them to friends. You can also play them from other people's consoles by logging into your account. The only way to allow a single digital copy to run on multiple machines is to have those machines online and capable of checking in. Otherwise you could just log into your friend's Xbox, download all of your games, put it in offline mode and now you and your friend both have full copies of all of your games.

That's easily remedied by putting a lock or time limit on the borrowed game. If they're offline and past the limit, the game is no longer accessible. If there's a lock, then it can only be unlocked if they're online. Or some combination of the two.

The argument for Online DRM is just not cutting it.

not sure where you live, but the gamestop's around me(read 2 of them), have never pushed used copys on me. maybe the guys behind the counter at yours are more invested in the stores success?

Everywhere I've lived it's been like this. I think that is how it is at most Gamestop locations. That is official company policy. They did revise it recently to preclude games for the first 60 days after launch, but once it hits 61 days, every time a customer tries to buy a new game, if there is a used copy available the employee is supposed to offer the used game.

BladeOfWraith, on 08 Jun 2013 - 13:36, said:

Olliepm, on 28 May 2013 - 13:06, said:
Plenty of my friends like to trade games in for store credit, and essentially buy new ones with that credit. That won't be possible anymore, and the shops' business will suffer for it. You may not care, but it's Microsoft who'll be reaping what would have been their profits. Does no one see this as a bit too greedy?

Have you ever been to Gamestop? Have you ever tried to buy a new game, only to have them try to push a "like new used game for $5 less" off on you? Gamestop does this because their profit margin on it is huge.

not sure where you live, but the gamestop's around me(read 2 of them), have never pushed used copys on me. maybe the guys behind the counter at yours are more invested in the stores success?

I have had GS employees suggest the used version of the game. But very very rarely have any of them "pushed" on me. They just ask. I say 'no'. And we go on with the transaction, 9 times out of 10.

When I say they aggressively push used sales, I am speaking of corporate policy, not personal interaction(which should be plain from the context of my post).

I don't mean their employee tells me to buy a used game and then tries to convince me if I say no. By offering used on almost every purchase that is aggressively pushing used sales(as a matter of sales impact, not as the personal feelings of a consumer).

That's easily remedied by putting a lock or time limit on the borrowed game. If they're offline and past the limit, the game is no longer accessible. If there's a lock, then it can only be unlocked if they're online. Or some combination of the two.

The argument for Online DRM is just not cutting it.

If who is offline? The person borrowing the game, or the person who loaned it? Regardless, I wasn't referring to borrowing games. I specifically said games you give to friends or trade in. The 24 hour offline check prevents someone from buying a game, installing it and trading it back in the same day just to play the entire game in offline mode. Whether you'd like to admit it or not, not being tied to physical media requires changes in how systems operate. The default method is no returns, no trade in, which is how XBLA works now. The 24 hour offline check is a compromise that will prevent games from being permanently associated with your account like you have with Steam and other game distribution systems.

What worries me the most is game rentals. Ive been a long-time gamefly user(like Netflix but for games). Its how I play all the games without having to buy. I get the most out of my console this way. M$ has no plans for rentals, and that concerns me a lot. If no rentals are allowed than I simply will not be buying their console.

You somehow missed the part about being able to resell those games or give them to friends. You can also play them from other people's consoles by logging into your account. The only way to allow a single digital copy to run on multiple machines is to have those machines online and capable of checking in. Otherwise you could just log into your friend's Xbox, download all of your games, put it in offline mode and now you and your friend both have full copies of all of your games.

That's easily remedied by putting a lock or time limit on the borrowed game. If they're offline and past the limit, the game is no longer accessible. If there's a lock, then it can only be unlocked if they're online. Or some combination of the two.

The argument for Online DRM is just not cutting it.

Isn't that what they are doing?