Here alone are many programmers, so how it''s going to be when every one can do program. I mean like in here there is over 150 game programmers including other sites and lonewolfs there must be over 1000 programmers that plan to have career with their hobby. Now what if everyone tries to be top programmer, they want to belong elite, well let''s say that 40% drops out during the first steps it still mean over 600 game programmers, where can we find jobs to ourselves, it is huge glut... Even if the game indrusty grows, it is going to be like Hollywood, new bad games pop out every day and only the top, best team who has best developpers and artist create the most profitable games. Let''s say house A creates game which compared to Star Wars or Titanic and house B creates game which could be compared to sucky B group movies like.. umm like End of Days. Well, most of you will become B programmers, well at least you have good changes to become one... There is going to be huge unemployment during next 10 years in game programming(and programming general) or just like in Hollywood... Sad, but true...

I don''t think the programming field in general has to worry too much about rampant unemployment anytime soon.

Programming houses scratch and claw and dig to find *good* programming talent. While there may seem to be a ton of people here interested in programming, put against the larger canvas of the marketplace, the programmer is an extremely small subset in the computer-related field (I think we''re all twisted..)

As a professional programmer, I certainly don''t feel too much pressure about job obsolescence or hyper competition.

BTW -- your 40% drop out figure is, I would guess, heinously low. I would probably put it at about 80% and up. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Especially in the business field, its often the consultants, admins, and technicians that make the big money off of the devs sweat and tears.

Notwen!

Why do you come here and ruin our selfesteem???

I''m not saying that all of us here will become a good programmer, but there''s certainly not to few jobs.

In Sweden alone there are many software houses who are needing more staff.

So don''t come here and say that we''ll probably become B programmers, lets encourage people instead =)

No offence but not a chance in Hell.
In America alone there are double the number of software engineering jobs appearing than computing BSc''s graduating. The glut is in the positions available for smart educated programmers, not in the programmers themselves.
Sure there are people who hobby program but even without formal education they can be good enough to fill these posts because it''s an employee''s market not an employers.
Even if more and more people move into the computing field you''ll find that the resources required will outstrip the talent appearing.
Personally I still intend to make myself unemployment proof. I have a BSc, I''ve got 2 1/2 years work experience and I''m still going back to University so that I can re-educate myself to ensure that, not only will I be employable and worthwhile to a firm, I will also be able to choose the types of jobs I wish to work on inside the industry (the computing industry in general and games in particular).
The jobs are there for far more people than are educated to have them and, if you choose to work a little, you can have your pick of the crop.

In-my-never-humble-opinion,

Mike

I''m glad to see that others don''t seem to agree with the thought of most programmers not finding jobs. It seems that there are many programmers to be, but probably a good percentage of them will only program on the side or aren''t serious about it. It sort of worries me that a lot of people are getting into programming, because it could make getting a job harder. However, I really can''t see the game industry getting smaller so there should always be a need for game programmers.

I found article from one news site which talked about this. And you got me wrong if you thought that I''m here ruin your selfesteem. Luckily most of you guys think that it''s not a problem. I also got point that now governments are investing too much money to technology (I disagree) and the glut is coming, 10 years or more. Like me, I have spent most of my life (8) years with computers and programming, when this kind of information appears, it is shocking, like losing all of my experience. Well maybe I was too credulous.

I don't think the software industry will become Hollywood - because that would mean that there would be virtually no companies, and all the programmers would be on a contract

If you were a good successful programmer, why would you be worrying about losing all of your experience?
Even if you don't manage to be a top dawg game coder, you should still be able to see that you won't lose your experience. You still have the knowledge - it may come in handy one day....


Take it easy,

-Mezz

Edited by - Mezz on 1/10/00 1:17:13 PM

It''s called competition, and that''s what makes the US rock and roll. The more talented/more ambitious will rise to the top, the less talented/less ambitious will fall to the bottom. It''s like this with every industry. Not everybody is cut out to work until 4am in the morning, day after day.
The way to prevent yourselves from becoming part of the bottom of the barrel is to work, learn, work, learn, and NOT GIVE UP...EVER!
And if you can''t get a job, get some investors together and throw your own company together.

--Shannon Schlomer, BLAZE Technologies, Inc.

"There is going to be huge unemployment during next 10 years in game programming(and programming general) or just like in Hollywood...
Sad, but true..."

I don''t see that happening any time soon. Let''s be realistic people. Games have been around for years, Monopoly, Poker, Solitare, and many other Old games are still played and make revenue yearly. Video games have been around for less than 25 years! And retail computer games are just starting to hit the "Quality" mark that console games have been hitting for years. Statistics show that 8 out of 10 buisnesses go out of buisness due to bad management. That''s what I see when I take a look at all these game companies that have been going out of buisness lately. Bad management. Game programmers will never be out of "Jobs", technology moves to fast to allow for that. If Sega came out with a new console/DirectTV system don''t you think that someone would want to make games for it? What about making games for DVD players? The possibilities are limitless. Will you still be programming computer games in 30 years? Maybe not, but as long as there is some new technology out there we can make games for it. And if all else fails you can always become an app developer professionaly and make games on the side. After all I can''t think of one app that uses something that a game doesn''t. No one can forsee the future, even for people that work in the game development industry since it began can''t predict what will happen tomorrow, maybe a new genre will appear out of no where...or maybe the world will end. Predictions suck, live your life in fear of what might happen and you''ll never get out of your bed and live your life and it''s just that simple. Game programmers will have jobs as long as computer chips are manufactured in one form or another, which will be way past 10 years into the future. You''ll just have to addapt to new technology and embrass it when it comes rather than sticking to your old thought processes of "I know C++ or C so I don''t need to learn new things".

I can''t imagine the need for software engineers is going to decrease anytime in the forseeable future. As for game programmers, I wouldn''t entirely rule it out. But there will always be the option of doing a game solo/independant. You don''t have to work for a dev house to work in the industry, and I would bet that most of us won''t (maybe I''m wrong). I have done it, and I''m not sure I''d want to do it again. I got a job, worked for a while, and then the publisher closed us down. It happens ALL the time in this industry. Babylon5 and X-COM Genesis are recent prime examples. They were both axed for no good reason. Plus you work for lower than average wages, and many more hours. Its an industry that takes advantage of the fact that everyone wants to do it, and there will always be more people to fill the place of people like me, which is probably very true.

Now I work long hours on my solo stuff, but I have full control of it, and it means alot to me. That''s my opinion. Some of you may try out officially working for a company, but I wouldn''t be certain you''ll like it (but it depends on the company too).

One other comment to Evaclear: You honestly think computer games are being produced with better quality? I''d have to disagree, strongly. I''ve pretty much abandoned the PC as a gamer because the Quality is terrible. I''m refering to bugs everywhere (many aspects have improved, like graphics and sound and such, but its still buggy garbage). They''re even creaping into PSX games. It is becoming much worse, with no slowing in sight.