I approached the game with an open-mind. I loved fallout 3, I really wanted to love Skyrim. [But I didn't enjoy it.]

So yes, while the OP is clearly overstating his case for dramatic effect, I don't think he's really all that far from the truth.

Fallout 3 sucked, and you also suck for playing it. Truth.



Seriously though, the elder scrolls games for me are about going on a role playing journey inside your own head (much like minecraft). It's like a D&D club for the forever alone guy and his imaginary friends. The way that I play Fallout vs Elder scrolls is apples and oranges, and the criticisms in this thread seem entirely inconsequential to my inner-elder-scrolls-adventures.
If it is really that much of a crap game to some people, and a brilliant game to other people, I think those groups are obviously playing it in a very different way, with a very different mindset and world-view, with different expectations and different requirements.

Many of the criticisms and highlighted flaws in this thread apply 10-fold more harshly to Morrowind, yet it was a superior game (IMHO), so... different strokes? Maybe the thread should be "I don't understand why this activity is enjoyable to some people"?

Seriously though, the elder scrolls games for me are about going on a role playing journey inside your own head (much like minecraft). It's like a D&D club for the forever alone guy and his imaginary friends. The way that I play Fallout vs Elder scrolls is apples and oranges, and the criticisms in this thread seem entirely inconsequential to my inner-elder-scrolls-adventures.

I feel like this is kind of an excuse. Why does being able to roleplay in depth mean that gameplay should suffer? I don't think having clunky combat or a world that's so sparsely populated does much for going on a role playing journey inside your own head. I think the problem I have with most of the elder scrolls games is that despite it being set in a fantasy land, it portrays it as a normal life in a fantasy land, which is quite boring.

Skyrim would be like the equivalent of having to play a Mess Officer in Battlefield.

Skyrim would be like the equivalent of having to play a Mess Officer in Battlefield.

We have a winner.

I feel like this is kind of an excuse. Why does being able to roleplay in depth mean that gameplay should suffer? I don't think having clunky combat or a world that's so sparsely populated does much for going on a role playing journey inside your own head.

You missed my point, outlined below the quoted section. The gameplay doesn't suffer for some people - why is this? The combat isn't clunky -- it's brilliantly and smoothly executed compared to Morrowind, which was still fun despite being clunky. The world isn't sparse, it's extremely dense!

If both these viewpoints are true, then obviously we're talking about a subjective truth here. We can describe our own truth for like-minded people to circle-jerk over, or we can try and understand how it is that other people are viewing things over in their world...

Arma can literally be like playing a mess officer in Battlefield, and yet people will play such Arma missions for that experience and enjoy it. Instead of exclaiming that those people suck, isn't it more interesting to try and understand their world-view? To try and understand how they are viewing your 'sucky' experience as something enjoyable?

You missed my point. The gameplay doesn't suffer for some people. The combat isn't clunky -- it's brilliantly executed compared to Morrowind

The combat is brilliant compared to a pretty terrible combat experience. That doesn't even begin to make it good. As much as I value subjective opinions, there are just so many things that are terrible about the combat.

The world isn't sparse, it's extremely dense.[/quote]
Not really. There is a lot of stuff in the world, but it's all very spread out. I find myself frequently running for 10 minutes at a time without running into anything that's interesting to interact with. Solitude, the closest thing to a capital, has an apparent population of less than 50. I'm not sure how you can consider that "extremely dense"

I find myself frequently running for 10 minutes at a time without running into anything that's interesting to interact with.

Interesting to you. I can run for 10 minutes at a time, and do about 30 different things in that span. Start a new quest, pick a million alchemy ingredients, see some tiny easter egg that I must stop and admire, or beat someone who wants me dead into a fine pulp.
As for the combat, your opinion is your opinion, but consider how I attack things: I have my companion, they equip a Staff of Some Atronach or something to summon a creature to fight for them, then do their own thing. I hang back, conjure some other Atronach to aggro itself so I am free to shoot it in the face with arrows, with no fear of getting hit.
I dislike the melee (I enjoy bows), so I don't try to use it.

That is the most BA thing I think I have ever done in a game. Being able to kill things without actually requiring too much *from* me, is fun to me. Might not be to you. Doesn't mean that the type(s) of combat you experienced is/are terrible in general.

Point being, if you don't like playing the game, try playing it completely different. Might not change your mind, but you have the opportunity to see it in a different light. Who knows, it might spark you to try modding to alter the game to be something you will enjoy.

I really love Skyrim and there is so much to do in it. I actually cried a few tears of joy about how much love the designers have put into the game. It's actually more than I ask from a game, considering how much time I've spent with it.

But there are a few flaws that bug me:

- repetitive phrases from random people. it's rediculous when guards say the same dumb one-liner 5 times per minute.
- poor merchants. I have a house full of loot and nobody can afford it.
- bugs. there are way too many.
- books. there are way too many and I don't have the time to read them. If it was up to me, they could have spent that effort on something else.
- menu is terrible

[quote name='way2lazy2care' timestamp='1331733184' post='4921967']
I find myself frequently running for 10 minutes at a time without running into anything that's interesting to interact with.

Interesting to you. I can run for 10 minutes at a time, and do about 30 different things in that span. Start a new quest, pick a million alchemy ingredients, see some tiny easter egg that I must stop and admire, or beat someone who wants me dead into a fine pulp.[/quote]
I like doing all of those things fine, but aside from picking ingredients/mining it often takes me more than 10 minutes to find anything to interact with. Sometimes I am lucky enough to find a deer to shoot at while I am being bored.

That is the most BA thing I think I have ever done in a game. Being able to kill things without actually requiring too much *from* me, is fun to me. Might not be to you. Doesn't mean that the type(s) of combat you experienced is/are terrible in general.

Point being, if you don't like playing the game, try playing it completely different. Might not change your mind, but you have the opportunity to see it in a different light. Who knows, it might spark you to try modding to alter the game to be something you will enjoy.
[/quote]
My counterpoint would be why include melee at all then? If you are going to include a shitty version of something just for completeness sake, it is going to collectively make the game shittier not better. Inversely, if you're going to add something to your game you should make sure the game does it well.

Of course, the real question still remains: why does every third guard sound like Arnold Schwarzenegger?

My counterpoint would be why include melee at all then?

If nothing at all, what kind of semi-medieval/fantasy game would it be if it just CUT melee? Considering the setting, and the history of the game, removing melee would be unbelievably nonsensical.

I wonder what exactly it is about the combat you dislike? Deeming it 'shitty' because you didn't like it, with no explanation of why, and thusly naming the rest of the combat experience abhorrent is a rather close-minded approach to finding something you will like. It's not perfect, but it is just a game. Might not be your game.

I just know I enjoyed my combat experience, because it wasn't what I was 'supposed' to do