I wonder how Linux sucks...them is fighting words

I''ll agree that Linux is some uber-OS that can slice and dice anything and is better in all things than M$. However, I think it does have a lot more potential in certain areas than others. At my workplace we got hit hard by Nimda (our LAN department sucks) and they are now evaluating moving certain servers to Linux. We''ve had almost two days of downtime thanks to Nimda.

So in the corporate environment (ie servers) I think Linux runs absolute circles around all of M$ OS;es...but when it comes to games I''m afraid Linux has to take a huge backseat to M$. Which is a shame really because Linux seems like such a more cool environment to program in.

I''m still leraning the most fundamental basics of programming, but from what I''ve learned of Windows 9x programming and Linux, I''ll have to say that Windows programming seems so much easier which seems so strange since Linux documentation is so much more open and available. With Windows, you''ve got DirectX, and that pretty much takes care of everything. With Linux you need either OpenGL or Mesa, and then you can run GLX or DRI acceleration (or Nvidia''s proprietary stuff). Not to mention the choice between KDE, Gnome, or just X windows/X11. It''s making my head spin already.

And then compiling and linking? Man, I thought that was confusing enough with windows...but in linux you got to make makefiles, and make a configuration script? And while I haven''t played with any of the IDE environments for Linux (RHIDE, gIDE, Anjuta, etc.) the thought of needing to play with autoconf, make, gcc, and gdb makes my mind numb. Ohhh, and I won''t talk about keeping track of dependencies with the gazillion libraries out there.

All that being said, I really hope that Linux becomes a more viable gaming platform. But I think it has a long long way to go. And I fear for OpenGL too. With the way M$ is advancing DirectX, it should be easier and more powerful with the next release (or so everyone says...I''m not experienced to be a judge on that). If Linux became easier to use (despite what everyone says, Linux is still a lot harder to use for your average user than Windows....need I say tarballs or RPM''s anyone? or how about recompiling Linux kernel modules to get some video cards to have proper 3d acceleration under xfree86?). So, I think the mantra needs to be, make Linux easier or more encapsulated. Otherwise it will be a long hard battle. I think the lack of posts here is because so few people have knowledge of Linux programming.

Respects to Dauntless. well spoken. I just graduated from University--and without going into all the lovely details of my programming experience, let''s just say that university students who start school with no programming experience pretty much--ah what''s the word I''m looking for--suck!

I entered into school with a backround in 8086 assembly, and plenty of C/C++ experience on DOSx platforms. Although all classes required in the curriculum are all linux classes I still turned out to be that guy who "knows everything" and helps all the "losers" (not lower classmen, but upper!) with their syntax and symantics in coding excerices. In group projects I was the one who "got the job done" and was the dependancy of the group.

I felt like a dirty condom, people began to use me and be nice to me and everyone wanted to be my friend.

But, going back to the linux vs MS issue. If I remember correctly, as defined by "Operating System Concepts Fifth Edition," by Silberschatz and Galvin, an OS is supposed to have the following goals:
"The primary goal of an operating system is thus to make the computer system convenient to use. A secondary goal is to use the computer hardware in an efficient manner." [ch1, p3]

they italicize convenient and efficient to stress their importance.

Now if computers are to be used only by the few technical elite then linux can be considered to fulfill these goals. But if computers are to be enjoyed by all people, harry and non-harry, sexual and bi-sexual, then linux definitely does NOT fulfill these requiremnets, as it is NOT easy to use by those who aren''t extremely technical, but who are just common users.

Also the authors state that it is the job of an operating system to "make efficient use of all the computer hardware."
Now I ask the queston, which operating system supports the most broadest range of hardware configurations without causing the most headaches to users?

If you answered MS Windows, you get an A.

I consider Oulesi (or however the hell you spell it a friend of mine, and I will not tolerate insults against him here.

He''s prolly done much mroe for the LInux game development community than most people here, so before you speak, GET A FUCKING CLUE.

Asshole.


After careful deliberation, I have come to the conclusion that Nazrix is not cool. I am sorry for any inconvienience my previous mistake may have caused. We now return you to the original programming

The the AP:

Some people find Linux a hell of a lot easier to use. For us, it''s a better OS than Windows. Others feel the opposite way and for them, Windows is a better operating system. For the unwashed masses, I think they''re both absolutely terrible solutions. For the computer illiterate, asking whether Windows or Linux is better is a lot like asking whether you''d rather be kicked in the groin or poked in the eye with a sharp stick. Sure, one is worse than the other, but neither are good. Be and Mac are getting there, though I think even they have a ways to go.

Anyway, my main point is that I think that saying "Linux is a bad operating system" or "Windows is a bad operating system" are both bad statements. Ideally, people should use the tool that works best.

And that''s why I don''t like Microsoft. Because they make serious efforts to ensure that the majority of people don''t use the best tool for the job via broken standards and illegal forms of market domination.

Anyway, that''s enough of my ranting.

ben.c

quote:
consider Oulesi (or however the hell you spell it a friend of mine, and I will not tolerate insults against him here.

I consider Linus a friend of mine, and I will not tolerate insults against Linux.

quote:
He''s prolly done much mroe for the LInux game development community than most people here, so before you speak, GET A FUCKING CLUE.

Asshole.

Godfree, being a moderator, you should perhaps READ THE FUCKING RULES, or perhaps should I remind you:

Avoid offensive language. The forum software automatically censors some words, and admins/moderators may censor others.

And while we''re at it: You should perhaps tell your ''friend'' Oluseyi to stop posting useless nonsense, things like ''Linux sucks !'' on a Linux forum is a good candidate for a flamewar, unproductive and just pure crap. If you don''t like Linux, then go the the f*cking Windows forum. Thanks.

BTW: ofcourse I don''t know Linus personally (although I would like to !), but you get the point

Shelrem

I think the point that the AP was trying to make was that Linux is a good enough OS for people with some decent computer knowledge. But let me tell you, coming from two different backgrounds..that Linux still has a long way to go for the unwashed masses. First off, I have a BS in psychology...didn''t use it in the job world, which has primarily been of a tech support nature (both tier 1 and 2 all self taught). From a psychology standpoint, people don''t want to have to think...they just want to to rip open the box and get started. I could tell you horror stories of how absolutely idiotic people are when it comes to trying to understand their PC''s. They don''t want a steep learning curve just to be able to install their program...

I can hear it now...

Customer: "I''m trying to install this program I just downloaded. But when I double click it, nothing happens"
Techie: "Does the file end in a tar.gz or in a .rpm?"
Customer: "what do you mean?"
Techie: "At the end of the file name, it will have an extension, does it ened in .rpm or .gz?"
Customer: "oh that...it''s um, .rpm"
Techie: "Okay, you''ll have to open a Package Manager like GnoRPM or Red Hat Pacakage Manager, then you will need to install it"
Customer: "How come I can''t just double click it?"
Techie: "well if you are using Gnome Midnight Commander as your file manager you can"
Customer: "Is that in my KDE desktop? okay forget it...so how do I use this package manager?"
Techie: "well, first you have to run the pacakage to scan all available packages and check to see if the package is an upgrae or uninstalled...then you may need to open a terminal shell and run a configuration script to see if there are any dependencies. If there are any dependencies, you can try to force the install...
Customer: customer hangs up phone in frsutration

And the casual person that may want to pick up Linux out of curiousity will be dismayed to find that he may need to recompile the Linux module to get his video card running DRI acceleration. Yikes, what a mess. Now for some PC nut heads like me, I find it challenging. Heck, I took up programming and Linux because I found it challenging and because I liked the freedom they both offered (I thought about networking, but after seeing what our LAN department goes through...and how stupid they are, I lost a lot of faith in that). With M$, you load up directX and your drivers, and blammo, things are configured for you. Want to install a file? You double click it. Want to uninstall a file? You go to Add/remove programs. Want to connect to your ISP? Just install their software, click on the button to find the phone#''s, and you''re ready to go.

No fuss with having to figure out if I have glibc6.2.1 and Linux kernel 2.4.8. No worries that I can''t drag and drop my favorite Gnome program on my KDE desktop. It''s these little inconsistencies that will strike fear in the hearts of your average user. Me, well, look at my nickname. I take it in stride and endeavour to learn. But coming from a tech support background and from my psychology, Linux has a LONG way to go before it''s a viable desktop alternative...no matter how much the Linux fans will say to the contraty. The very fact they ARE linux fans reveals that they have a different temperment and attitude than your average joe six pack. It means he is probably more computer savvy, or willing to learn.

But, the more I think about it, the more I think I will stick with Linux to learn my programming on. Why would I do this after everything I said? Partly for the challenge. Partly because I can''t stand the business ethics of M$. But mostly, because it''s the chanoce to do something new, to kind of be a pioneer.

There is a tremendous difference between "Linux sucks" and "Linux sucks for most things."

I''m a Linux advocate. A serious one. Not a bigot, not an "overzealot", an advocate. I consider Linux the entirely superior solution for servers and appliances/applications that don''t require much in the way of complex human interface (PDAs, embedded applications). I even tried to pitch Linux to my Dad, who was the then Dean of the College of Agriculture at the university where he works, as a solution for a datashare system they were implementing. Heck, I own an Agenda VR3d - that''s right, developer edition - entirely because it runs Linux. I''ve purchased , not downloaded, several versions of Mandrake and RedHat, and received copies of everything in-between from Stormix to Debian to SuSE from my subscriptions to various Linux magazines (Maximum Linux, while it lived, Linux Magazine and Linux Journal). I was an exclusive Linux user for 6 months, thinking it was the panacea to my stability problems with Win9x. It wasn''t.

If you had looked at my earlier post, you might have noticed that I have more than a passing familiarity with networking under Linux. I got DRI working on my "generic" Mandrake box before they started packaging it with distros, from source, by hand. Last night I was speaking to a close friend of mine and outlining a business plan with Linux as a technology base. I was a member and later a moderator on the Indrema Developer Network along with Godfree (which is why he knows my views so well and stood up for me. Thanks, Nurg!) during its short lifespan. Even now that I run Win2kPro only , I browse LinuxFrom Scratch, SlashDot, LinuxGames, HappyPenguin and pretty much anything Linux-related on an almost daily basis. I love Linux.

But I realize its shortcomings, and when it comes to usefulness for the average home or office user, Linux sucks. Rocks. Deal with it.

Mr Anonymous Poster.

My forum, my rules.

People here are more than familiar with my outbursts of completely unjust outlook, they are familiar with my tendancies to abuse of power, and they are familiar with my obligatory use of bad language.

It''s a well known fact in the GDNet community that I don''t give a flying fuck about language rules. They are a pointless oscial taboo that has no basis in rational or logical thought.

After careful deliberation, I have come to the conclusion that Nazrix is not cool. I am sorry for any inconvienience my previous mistake may have caused. We now return you to the original programming

Oluseyi:
Ok, fair enough, you stated your opinion and argumented for it.
Much nicer than a useless "linux sucks for most things". I agree that it''s not quite there yet for the average home user, far from probably.

Godfree^:
How about you scrolling the fucking page to actually see the name spelled out in front of you. And I don''t belive his first comment was worth shit, a bit like your''s really. I seem to remember a cd called something like "You''re no greater than the last great thing you did", I don''t consider his past very relevant about his present comment. So quit sounding like a "you don''t know who I am" celebrity.

If there''s any doubt, that was me forgetting to type in my username and password