quote:
So quit sounding like a "you don''t know who I am" celebrity.

It seems pretty clear you don''t know who I am...

Click here, here,
here and have a look at the bottom of this for an introduction to my work.

After careful deliberation, I have come to the conclusion that Nazrix is not cool. I am sorry for any inconvienience my previous mistake may have caused. We now return you to the original programming

I honestly don''t think that Windows is easier than Mac or Linux. I think that what people are used to is what they consider "easy." Just ask your average Mac user how to connect to the internet. they''ll tell you it''s easy, and just sit down and do it. then ask your average windows user to connect to the internet. they''ll tell you it''s easy, and just sit down and do it. if you asked the two to switch computers, and then perform the same task, they''d tell you "[other OS] sucks. [my OS] is sooooo much easier."(unless they know both OSes pretty well, but let''s not start a board war over that ) It really isn''t. they just know what to do. the same thing applies for linux. if a person has started using linux by some chance since they were a fetus, of course they''re gonna get used to it, and they''d think that using a Windows PC or Mac would be hard (I know it''s a hard concept to wrap your head around, but yes, it would happen). but who''s mom or dad really wanted to bother with Linux when all they wanted to do back in the early 1990''s is type up a document? Most computer users don''t even know that Linux exists!

Now I am a dual boot Win/Lin user, and I can admit that Linux was hard to pick up at first. But that''s because I kept comparing it to Windows. "aw crap, gotta recompile my video drivers. Why can''t I just install them like I can on windows." But after I got over that hurdle, I got used to it, and it all wasn''t so bad. After more tinkering around with it, it became almost second nature.

So where I am going with this is that these Linux/Windows wars aren''t going anywhere fast. I say just leave it at Linux makes a cheaper and more efficient server solution (unless you have 4 NICs and the fastest processorS [yes, more than one processor, linux doesn''t do multiple as well as Windows 2000, so don''t argue]while Windows has the software most people want. And if you are a gamer, then there is no argument. so these "Windows/Linux sucks" statements are really ignorant. They both can do what you need them to do and one isn''t necessarily easier than the other.

-timiscool999
"I like waffles. Especially with syrup." -me

Well, let''s consider this. If we bring a complete computer novice to a Windows system, he''ll see a graphical interface, icons he can double click - even a fairly simple and self-explanatory installation with plenty of defaults and "Wizard" features. Linux scares most people at the install. Windows: create one partition, and fdisk has default values it suggests unless you really know what you''re doing. Linux: swap, /, /usr, /home and perhaps /root are the suggested minimum partitions. Okay, some distros suggest defaults for the sizes of the partitions and their hierarchy, but most people still get intimidated by the term partition.

Windows users can also use Partition Magic.

Now, once the system is completely installed, the complete newbie is faced with using the system. Windows: one interface, doubleclick icons to open files, launch executables, install applications, uninstall applications (via Add/Remove), consistency. Linux: several possible interfaces with varying levels of interoperability, doubleclick works most of the time for most things; installing RPMs through the various frontends doesn''t quite hit that sweept spot (and figuring them out is a whole ''nother story...); uninstalling/upgrading software can be a pain at times, library hell and the need to maintain every aspect of the system manually can be extremely frustrating (we''re talking about a novice here).

I could go on and talk about productivity software, but forget that. Linux is an excellent system for problems within its domain, but in terms of client/workstation systems for the average computer user today, it is overly complex and daunting. And the attitude held by many members of the Linux community, that Windows "dumbs down" computers for "idiots" is elitist. You don''t captivate the world or attain world domination through elitism unless you plan to employ force.

Windows and Mac users probably will figure each others'' systems out a lot faster than either one of them will figure out Linux. One of the biggest problems will be the one-button versus two-button mouse disparity, and the interface differences that arise from this.

Hi,

I think we are all treading the wrong path here. For a programmer its best he knows ins and outs of many famous OS''s out there and not confine to only a single OS.

From a programmers aspect of view I would like to think that the you would have to be well versed with the OS as a whole to do some system specific stuffs but as a user these wouldn''t be important.

So if a user argues that windows is better, I will not disagree. I also agree that linux has its short comings but its still a famous OS and there is no reason to not experience the OS from a programmers stand point of view.

I would like to think that knowing how to move around in and program in 2 or 3 OS''s makes an induvidual a better programmer as he would not be confined to one view point only.

flame_warrior, I definitely agree with you. I was only responding to the post preceding mine which considered two "regular" users (as well as the allegations that I came here to flame Linux).

From an applications developer''s point of view, Linux provides a lot of powerful functionality, but there are still ease of use issues. From a systems programmer''s perspective, Linux is clearly a better option due to its open nature and well-documented and defined interfaces (the kernel, not necessarily all libraries and such).

I grew up with an IBM PC XT. Then my mother bought a Mac. Then I migrated to Linux. I believe that interacting with the three systems has made me a better applications developer because I have seen different paradigms, particularly in terms of Human Interface Design, and learnt from them. I believe I''m also something of a better systems programmer because, again, I have interacted with all of these systems from an applications development (either kernel- or user-mode) perspective and have learnt from that as well.

flame_warrior

That''s part of my problem right now is finding out how exactly Linux works. I kind of grasped how the Windows event driven model works, and I understood how the WinProc will intercept and interpret msg''s and do the appropriate work on them. But with Linux, so far after browsing through one book (Linux Programming Unleashed) and browsing "Linux Complete"...there''s nothing that really goes over how the OS really goes through its paces.

Not to mention that I''m not quite sure how the X windows servers, the desktop and the file/windows managers all interoperate. For example, when I click on a button in a gnome window, how does that get interpreted? Does X windows figure out the coordinates of the cursor and then dispatch a message to...what? To Gnome? To the windows manager? To some kind of kernel module?

So if anyone could point me in the direction of some good books or internet sites, it would be greatly appreciated.

Hi,

quote: Original post by Dauntless
That's part of my problem right now is finding out how exactly Linux works. I kind of grasped how the Windows event driven model works, and I understood how the WinProc will intercept and interpret msg's and do the appropriate work on them. But with Linux, so far after browsing through one book (Linux Programming Unleashed) and browsing "Linux Complete"...there's nothing that really goes over how the OS really goes through its paces.

Original post by Dauntless
Not to mention that I'm not quite sure how the X windows servers, the desktop and the file/windows managers all interoperate. For example, when I click on a button in a gnome window, how does that get interpreted? Does X windows figure out the coordinates of the cursor and then dispatch a message to…what? To Gnome? To the windows manager? To some kind of kernel module?

Try this for linux
What you want is some good sites for this. I would think http://lwn.net would be a good one.


Well thats the beauty of X, the driver and Window managers are 2 seperate entity. Anyway considering you might want a good X window programming site - it teaches Xwindow game programming but it should help you to figure out X without resorting to gtk or Qt.
http://game.ncl.ac.uk/

Hope they help. Loads of info on linux if you search google. HOWTOS and man pages have loads of info - it takes time figuring out linux, but I think its worth the time.

Edited by - flame_warrior on September 22, 2001 4:07:37 PM

Edited by - flame_warrior on September 22, 2001 4:11:46 PM

alright, well I might have been fighting a losing battle, but atleast I got more intelligent arguments, rather than "Linux/Windows sucks."

-timiscool999
"I like waffles. Especially with syrup." -me

Windows does suck (just because it was made by MS... ), but I still use it. If Linux was bringing in more money than Windows, and there were some good books on it, I would use Linux instead.

Why put down one operating system? They both suck, you could say.

I say thier both all right. I intend to develop games for both OS's.

"I've sparred with creatures from the nine hells themselves... I barely plan on breaking a sweat here, today."~Drizzt Do'Urden

Edited by - Drizzt DoUrden on September 22, 2001 6:11:30 PM

Edited by - Drizzt DoUrden on September 22, 2001 6:23:27 PM

Funny... my copy of Wired arrived today, and it has a very interesting article on Linux and the "Desktop War." The author is a former RedHat employee - former manager of Wide Open News . He contends that Linux has lost the desktop war, and that the continued insistence on duplicating effort and engaging in essentially fruitless activity is a disservice to Linux. Had all those hours spent writing GNOME and KDE and KOffice and so forth been harnessed and spent writing more kernel mode and server software, perhaps the Unix War would be over now. Linux had difficulty scaling to eight processors; Solaris runs on 64. The server and embedded, non-GUI applications is where Linux'' potential is.

Anyway, I cease my proselytizing and, instead, state my intentions with regard to Linux. Linux is a strong technology base for server applications and embedded, networked applications. That''s music to my ears. Windows is the desktop platform of today and the forseeable future. That''s also music to my ears.

Life is good.