Seriously dude. Is it beyond your capability to refer to people as human adults rather than comparing them to delusional shit eating monkeys? You're coming from the side of the argument that is generally easier to argue and acting like a child is doing the argument no favors.

I didn't make the comparison you claim I made, actually. And I'm not trying to make an argument to convince you -- as I said in the statement you quoted, that's mostly futile. I was urging my fellow atheists to realize this instead of trying to convince believers.

And I never said the monkeys were delusional! Monkeys may drink wine, but they don't believe it turns to blood!

And yet there are a bunch of people with IQs high enough to qualify for Mensa (myself included) that are Christians. Imagine that.

[quote name='A Brain in a Vat' timestamp='1311103877' post='4837568']
In study after study there is found a clear and consistent connection between a lower IQ and religiosity.

Curiously I've checked it. At least some studies support your claim. http://en.wikipedia...._belief_and_I.Q[/quote]
I believe that it is fairly widely accepted that this phenomenon is an example of correlation-not-causation, due to a variety of socio-economic factors not strongly associated with religion.

[quote name='rozz666' timestamp='1311105169' post='4837583']
[quote name='A Brain in a Vat' timestamp='1311103877' post='4837568']
In study after study there is found a clear and consistent connection between a lower IQ and religiosity.

Curiously I've checked it. At least some studies support your claim. http://en.wikipedia...._belief_and_I.Q[/quote]
I believe that it is fairly widely accepted that this phenomenon is an example of correlation-not-causation, due to a variety of socio-economic factors not strongly associated with religion.
[/quote]

That article makes no sense. It claims that

Highly religious countries:
Are poorer.
They are less urbanized.
Have lower levels of education.
They have less exposure to electronic media that increase intelligence (Barber, 2006).
Experience a heavier load of infectious diseases that impair brain function.
Suffer more from low birth weights.
Have worse child nutrition.
Do a poor job of controlling environmental pollutants such as lead that reduce IQ. [/quote]

yet the US is one of the most religious countries on the planet and has relatively high standards in most of those areas.

I don't believe that religion makes you stupid (although it does make you less likely to question things), and nor do I believe that atheism makes you smarter. However, I do believe that smarter people tend to question things more and are generally more disturbed by the inconsistencies and contradictions in religion.

did you read your whole link?

Yes, and I don't see anything there that supports your claim that I was...

under the wrong impression if that's what you thought the majority of christians believe.

I'm not suggesting that there isn't difference in what people believe; that's not suprising since the bible is pretty contradictory on the subject.

yet the US is one of the most religious countries on the planet and has relatively high standards in most of those areas.

I think the US is pretty low on the list of religious countries in the world to be honest : http://www.gallup.co...ans-Common.aspx


I would agree that the correlation between religion and intelligence is based on socio-economic factors; Personally, I know some exceptionally intelligent people who are deeply religious.

yet the US is one of the most religious countries on the planet and has relatively high standards in most of those areas.

The American culture is all about being religious and a lot of people claim to be religious, because that's a trait that's valued in the US. A really easily faked trait, really, since it's hard to test.

However, if you look at things like church attendance, rather than self reported studies, you'll find out US is equal to or even lower than other developed nations.

Clicky

I'm not suggesting that there isn't difference in what people believe; that's not suprising since the bible is pretty contradictory on the subject.

That's because those who believe it's contradictory don't bother to read the text in context.

That's because those who believe it's contradictory don't bother to read the text in context.

I disagree, and think that's a bit presumptuous of you. I have read those passages in terms of the 'surrounding context' and I still see glaring contradictions. I guess it depends really on your interpretation. A sceptic is probably trying to find contradictions and a person of faith is trying to use the surrounding context to find a way to suppress them (They would do better to just put any contradictions down to shitty translation from greek, or the fact that the bible was written over a huge time span by various different authors; contradictions are inevitable!)

That the page even lists verses from the O.T. shows a lack of understanding of the Bible. "Salvation" in the O.T. obviously wasn't just faith alone, that's part of the reason why Christ's sacrifice was necessary. Less-than-ideal translation of words in the Bible (yes, there are some) doesn't change the meaning of the text. Given the fact that the Bible was written over a huge time span and the cohesiveness of the text throughout that time is a point for the validity of the Bible IMO.