The birthers aren't rooted in racism, they're rooted in partisanship. Yes, they are trying to take advantage of latent public racism, but they aren't pushing this canard because of racism. They wouldn't be playing this game with a black Republican president. They would be playing the opposite game, shouting racism at anyone who opposed that President's policies, just as they shouted "hater" at anyone who opposed President Bush's policies.

And the deathers seem to not know that medicare has been around for 40 years and living wills for 20, so if there was any truth to their fears, there would be countless stories available of government bureaucrats dispatching seniors as a matter of policy.

The next ruse is that non-American white hating baby killing senior killing Obama wants to give free health care to those lazy Mexican illegals who come here to steal our jobs and hook our kids on drugs and force us to eat delicious carne asada tacos!!! Seriously. OK. the taco bit was a joke, but that's the next step in this charade of outrage.

Quote: Original post by LessBread
The birthers aren't rooted in racism, they're rooted in partisanship. Yes, they are trying to take advantage of latent public racism, but they aren't pushing this canard because of racism. They wouldn't be playing this game with a black Republican president. They would be playing the opposite game, shouting racism at anyone who opposed that President's policies, just as they shouted "hater" at anyone who opposed President Bush's policies.

I think you're right for the start of the movement, but the crazies seem to have taken over. For example, an objectivist friend of mine decided to stop going to local tea parties because he said a bunch of thugs from stormfront have started showing up regularly.

Another friend of mine likened it to the sorcerers apprentice. The party leadership whipped up a frenzy of crazy, and it's taken on a life of its own, which they do not know how to stop.

Quote: Original post by Mithrandir

Quote: Original post by LessBread
The birthers aren't rooted in racism, they're rooted in partisanship. Yes, they are trying to take advantage of latent public racism, but they aren't pushing this canard because of racism. They wouldn't be playing this game with a black Republican president. They would be playing the opposite game, shouting racism at anyone who opposed that President's policies, just as they shouted "hater" at anyone who opposed President Bush's policies.

I think you're right for the start of the movement, but the crazies seem to have taken over. For example, an objectivist friend of mine decided to stop going to local tea parties because he said a bunch of thugs from stormfront have started showing up regularly.

Another friend of mine likened it to the sorcerers apprentice. The party leadership whipped up a frenzy of crazy, and it's taken on a life of its own, which they do not know how to stop.

The tea party phenomena - post election (not the Ron Paul formation from last year) - was a result of astro-turfing (remember how heavily FoxNews promoted the April 15 events?). Birthers grabbed on to it along with secessionists, but the Tea Parties were primarily about taxation. Alan Keyes isn't pushing the birther ruse to inspire white supremacists.

My remarks pertain to those who seek to push the meme into the mainstream, Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, Dobbs, etc. Those guys aren't going to associate with Aryans, and if they succeed at stirring them up, they aren't going to say anything about it either. Although now that there is a Democrat in the White House they might act and pretend to be civil libertarians, but don't forget that they cheered the curtailing of liberty under the Bush-Cheney regime. They cheered on torture, they cheered on Gitmo, they regularly freak out at the prospect that detainees might be tried in a court of law. I think they are secretly pleased that they've stirred up a hornets nest, that the frenzy has taken on a life of it's own. They would like nothing more than for the Aryans to go on the rampage, forcing Obama to crackdown on their violence, so that they can pontificate about how Obama hates white people and wants to arrest them when they supposedly exercise their rights. They would love for Obama to have his own Ruby Ridge and Waco tragedies to contend with. They would love to be able to take the old scripts from the drawer, dust them off and put them to use again.

You don't hear them complaining about this:

Declassified Docs Reveal Military Operative Spied on WA Peace Groups, Activist Friends Stunned

Christopher Pyle, Whistleblower Who Sparked Church Hearings of 1970s, on Military Spying of Olympia Peace Activists

More closer to the issues at hand, when it comes to the Gates case or the "beer summit", you don't hear them discussing contempt of cop. [1], [2], [3]. They like to stir up race issues, but they do so for partisan ends.

FWIW, every Republican I know--and there are a lot of them in Utah--thinks these people are completely bat-shit insane. I think it just makes good (read: profitable) press because it's a spectacle.

These people are to political conservatives what Jack Thompson is to concerned parents. The Birthers/Deathers try to associate themselves with the Republican party to gain respectability. Instead, they make the party look like frickin' idiots, and the party members just wish they would STFU.

Edit: To clarify, I'm not a member of the Republican party, though I lean conservative. I'd vote for Romney over Obama, but only because I think he would actually represent my interests better.

Beandog, you make a good point. I for one wish republicans would STFU about the birth certificate thing, as you would put it.

I could care less where the president is born as long as he is smart and defends personal freedom

Radio hosts are simply leading the sheep of the party (which sadly is quite a large number of people) that like to get riled up about pretty much anything. It happens on both sides; I have just as much resentment for O'reilly as I have for Bill Maher and Michael Moore

Birther's, as I see first hand, are simply looking for any possible way to get obama out of the white house. However I think it has a lot more to do with getting a democrat out of office than it has to do with his race...

Quote: Original post by Chris Reynolds
I have just as much resentment for O'reilly as I have for Bill Maher and Michael Moore

I don't think you can fairly compare O'Reily and Moore. Moore at least has good intententions and wants the best for people, even if he is a bit ham-fisted about it. O'Reily I'm sure is at least 1/5th Satan.

Quote: Original post by Mithrandir
Not sure I see a link between not believing in public health care and believing that Obama is an illegal kenyan immigrant...

That's probably why you aren't in politics LOL!
Seriously, doesn't anyone remember the media job they pulled on Kerry with Swift Vets and POWs for Truth?
I'm sure they have people i.e. Rove that get paid just to made this stuff up and get it into the mainstream.
Needless, to say I'm sure there is some sort of correlation between who owns the media i.e. Murdoch and how these idiotic stories even make headlines to get the spotlight off healthcare reform which is really what they should be focusing on.
This also explains why these same people making a fuss about McCain, whom everyone agrees wasn't born in the US, altough I guess it doesn't matter now since he lost the presidency :)
I'll tell you why because what you are dealing with here is the so called
The Backfire Effect

Quote: Original post by Yann L
OK. But what are the criteria then ? How can one candidate be born outside of the US without any issues whatsoever, while the unfounded allegations about the birth place of Obama are generating such a fuzz ?

linky

What the birthers are hanging onto is that, if Obama was born in Kenya, his mother would have been a couple of months too young for him to automatically become a citizen at birth*.

Never mind that for him to pull off what they claim he did would be one of the largest conspiracies in history, or that his mother would've had to start it before he was even born....

*Of course, it's actually not clear that that would disqualify him. He would still have been eligible for US citizenship at birth, he just wouldn't have received it automatically. No one has even clarified exactly what "natural born citizen" means.

Obama's birthday is next Tuesday, so don't be surprised if there is an uptick in birther actvity next week.

There are procedures for Americans abroad to obtain citizenship for their children. What were they in 1961? Does it really matter? This issue was debunked last year, yet it persists. That's a clear indication that no matter what facts are presented, what arguments are made, it won't matter to the conspiracy theorists, the "tin-hatters" as a newspaper in Florida put it.

Bernie Goldberg explains how the Birther movement is part of Obama's plan. Yes, Obama's plan. And I'll bet the Swift Boat Liars were secretly funded by Kerry and that the Clintons started the rumor that they killed Vince Foster.

Stupid Birthers. Everybody knows that Obama's presidency is illegitimate because he bungled the Oath Of Office.