think of random stuff like this, a function that we do not yet know the arguments to or have the source code to, so when calling the function we get mysterious results every time, so anything that is claimed random, just has variables that determine what it does, it''s just that we don''t understand them. random things do not exist.

I saw at a site (and I got it but didn''t look in it yet), a source code that contains a function to create a random number. Ok so you are saying that is not natural, well I don''t care. At least its a start.

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-Last Attacker
ICQ: 120585863
E-mail: laextr@icqmail.com

quote:

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Scientifically speaking, nothing is random. Everything is based on specifically defined rules and formulas.

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quote:

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it is quite easy to argue that there is no such thing as ''truly random'' as the entire universe is deterministic.

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Umm... Ever studied quantum mechanics? The basic idea is that while averages obey strict statistical models, specifics at the subatomic level are very random, as far as we can tell.

There is uncertainty there. We don''t know if the events are actually random or if there is another layer underneath that completely determines everything. But it''s too soon to claim that the universe is an entirely deterministic system, because there''s simply no proof one way or the other.

Diving into quantum mechanics/chaos theory/static noise theories are somewhat of a waste of time when thinking of using encryption. If you''re developing a multiplayer game and want to encrypt network data, then the current time, some random keyboard and mouse input, and maybe a really good random function and microphone input are more than enough.

If you''re theorizing about encryption, then, it''s good to take into consideration the universe and how it works. There''s that new NASA probe that''s supposed to try to figure out the big bang, maybe that''ll shed some new light onto it.

This is how lots of great new inventions start: You guess over and over until you get it right.

I was doing a little experimentation with random numbers a couple days ago in response to a newsgroup post about random numbers. I decided to try a little experiment concerning an idea I had a few weeks ago when I learned how to read the CPU''s internal cycle counter. This counter goes so fast that it''s seemingly impossible to predict when you''ll catch it (1 million cycles per second per MHz, as you''d expect). Now maybe this only applies to a multi-tasking OS, but when I MOD the result by my range, the results look pretty random. The total value was increasing on the order of 30,000 every time I called it (in a relatively tight loop in VC++). So using a MOD value of 500 turns up a pretty random set of results between 0 and 499. To read the counter, I used an ASM block in VC:
_asm {
rdtsc
mov ctr, eax
}

That puts the low half of the counter into a DWORD variable, "ctr". (I think eax was the low half).
Anyway, just thought I''d throw that idea into the discussuon as well.

"All you need to do to learn circular logic is learn circular logic"