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So is Steele the RNC Obama?

Started by January 31, 2009 07:28 PM
211 comments, last by LessBread 15 years, 8 months ago
Quote: Original post by Zahlman
It sounds to me like LessBread's argument is that the media and/or GOP desires to portray soccer balls as non-balls (and demonize balls for no apparent reason) while he himself simply wants to point out that the difference between a soccer ball and a cannonball is pretty significant if your intention is to kick the thing.


Less is stuck in the warfare versus welfare partisan battle. In his view warfare Keynesians are inferior to welfare Keynesians. This is a perfect example of a false dichotomy . The fact is they are both Keynesians. Keynes theory of production was discredited during the period of stagflation in the 70's, which his model can not account for.

His theories are popular in government circles because it is a means to their desired end. As Keynes himself stated, "In the long run we'll all be dead."

That Less requires me to debate on the premise of his false dichotomy means to me we can't have any discourse of value on the issue. For him welfare Keynesians are morally just and warfare Keynesians aren't Keynesians at all.

So we have no real reason to discuss the wallpaper in his fantasy land. I did attempt to point out that McCain is also a Keynesian, but he can't even admit that.

Quote:
You keep referring to these classes, as if a graduate-level education were required to say anything meaningful about economics. I find that hard to believe, considering that I didn't find it would be even *useful* for *computer engineering*.


As a computer engineer, if I were to engage you in a domain you were conversant in(CE), then became argumentative, then made bald assertions that fly in the face of both my end and your end of the debate, then referred to logical circuits and micro-processors as jargon, and demanded that you explain your oddball theory that logic gates require power to function using only terms that I personally had googled in my effort to rebut you then you may understand my frustration.

Now you actually take the time to explain to me the basic make up of logical gates as a pre-step to make your point, and I willfully ingore the basic tenets because it doesn't accord with my preconceptions.

Don't you realize at some point you're just getting trolled, or at least that a better use of your time might be discussing the issue with someone semi-literate or at least not willfy ignorant of the topic?

How many times exactly are you going to argue the point that diodes do in fact exist, it doesn't matter if the article I googled doesn't mention them?



"Let Us Now Try Liberty"-- Frederick Bastiat
Quote: Original post by Dreddnafious Maelstrom
Quote: Original post by Zahlman
It sounds to me like LessBread's argument is that the media and/or GOP desires to portray soccer balls as non-balls (and demonize balls for no apparent reason) while he himself simply wants to point out that the difference between a soccer ball and a cannonball is pretty significant if your intention is to kick the thing.


Less is stuck in the warfare versus welfare partisan battle. In his view warfare Keynesians are inferior to welfare Keynesians. This is a perfect example of a false dichotomy . The fact is they are both Keynesians. Keynes theory of production was discredited during the period of stagflation in the 70's, which his model can not account for.


Don't you wish that name calling and finger pointing was all it took, because that's what your small mind is able to grasp. Zahlman's metaphor is spot on. A cannonball is only meant to be used one time, a soccer ball is meant to be used dozens of times. Deficit spending on infrastructure grows the economy and benefits society long into the future. It's an investment. Deficit spending on armaments grows the economy in the short term, but it's not an investment. Unless there is a war it sits gathering dust, but that creates an incentive for war. The dichotomy isn't false. And while business partisans may have discredited welfare Keynesian in the 70's, in the 80's Reagan demonstrated that warfare Keynesianism was alive and well. American went from building a great society to fighting the evil empire.

Quote: Original post by Dreddnafious Maelstrom
His theories are popular in government circles because it is a means to their desired end. As Keynes himself stated, "In the long run we'll all be dead."


Your smear jobs don't work as well as they used to. You know damn well that's not what Keynes intended.

Quote: Original post by Dreddnafious Maelstrom
That Less requires me to debate on the premise of his false dichotomy means to me we can't have any discourse of value on the issue. For him welfare Keynesians are morally just and warfare Keynesians aren't Keynesians at all.


Yes, I think welfare Keynesians are morally just and warfare Keynesians are not, but if I didn't think military Keynsians were Keynesians, I wouldn't have brought up military Keynesianism. I brought that up, not you.

Quote: Original post by Dreddnafious Maelstrom
So we have no real reason to discuss the wallpaper in his fantasy land. I did attempt to point out that McCain is also a Keynesian, but he can't even admit that.


Can't admit it? I volunteered it! I pointed it out.

Quote: Original post by Dreddnafious Maelstrom
...
Now you actually take the time to explain to me the basic make up of logical gates as a pre-step to make your point, and I willfully ingore the basic tenets because it doesn't accord with my preconceptions.

Don't you realize at some point you're just getting trolled, or at least that a better use of your time might be discussing the issue with someone semi-literate or at least not willfy ignorant of the topic?

How many times exactly are you going to argue the point that diodes do in fact exist, it doesn't matter if the article I googled doesn't mention them?


Dude, you're not talking about rocket science. Don't pretend that you're some high and mighty expert in a rarefied and esoteric field. The bottom line is that you like to throw out a lot of jargon to obfuscate the points you try to make but are unable to. Case example, your botched attempt to show how tax cuts lead to jobs.

"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." - the Laughing Man
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Quote: Original post by LessBread
Don't you wish that name calling and finger pointing was all it took, because that's what your small mind is able to grasp. Zahlman's metaphor is spot on. A cannonball is only meant to be used one time, a soccer ball is meant to be used dozens of times. Deficit spending on infrastructure grows the economy and benefits society long into the future. It's an investment. Deficit spending on armaments grows the economy in the short term, but it's not an investment. Unless there is a war it sits gathering dust, but that creates an incentive for war. The dichotomy isn't false. And while business partisans may have discredited welfare Keynesian in the 70's, in the 80's Reagan demonstrated that warfare Keynesianism was alive and well. American went from building a great society to fighting the evil empire.


My small mind disagree's with your entire premise. Government spending doesn't grow the economy. If you subtract government spending from the GDP you can witness its effect. Government spending doesn't make jobs, it makes work. Job's are sustainable over the long run because they are productive venture, work is digging a hole and filling it back up, using other peoples finite resources to pay for it.

Quote:
Your smear jobs don't work as well as they used to. You know damn well that's not what Keynes intended.


He certainly did, thus the genesis of that quote.

Quote:
Yes, I think welfare Keynesians are morally just and warfare Keynesians are not, but if I didn't think military Keynsians were Keynesians, I wouldn't have brought up military Keynesianism. I brought that up, not you.


You brought it up and then pointed out it wasn't "actually" Keynesian. This whole line of debate is about that very denial.

Quote:
Can't admit it? I volunteered it! I pointed it out.


You volunteered it to refute it. Otherwise what is our discord on this specific issue?

Quote:
Dude, you're not talking about rocket science. Don't pretend that you're some high and mighty expert in a rarefied and esoteric field. The bottom line is that you like to throw out a lot of jargon to obfuscate the points you try to make but are unable to. Case example, your botched attempt to show how tax cuts lead to jobs.


I'm not pretending to be an expert in an esoteric field, im fielding grief from you for using basic economic terms to describe the topic they were meant to describe. What you label as "jargon" is basic elementary terms that should be able to be used in the discussion. You've really never heard the term margin, or marginal, or at the margin? How about clearing rate? 10% of our debate is you googling up definitions of terms and saying im using them out of context when it's clear you dont understand the context even then.

Case in point "margin", case in point "clearing rate"

If your point is im not speaking to you like a 10 year old then I'll happily concede, I wasn't aware I was required to.

"Let Us Now Try Liberty"-- Frederick Bastiat
Quote: Original post by Dreddnafious Maelstrom
Quote: Original post by LessBread
Don't you wish that name calling and finger pointing was all it took, because that's what your small mind is able to grasp. Zahlman's metaphor is spot on. A cannonball is only meant to be used one time, a soccer ball is meant to be used dozens of times. Deficit spending on infrastructure grows the economy and benefits society long into the future. It's an investment. Deficit spending on armaments grows the economy in the short term, but it's not an investment. Unless there is a war it sits gathering dust, but that creates an incentive for war. The dichotomy isn't false. And while business partisans may have discredited welfare Keynesian in the 70's, in the 80's Reagan demonstrated that warfare Keynesianism was alive and well. American went from building a great society to fighting the evil empire.


My small mind disagree's with your entire premise. Government spending doesn't grow the economy. If you subtract government spending from the GDP you can witness its effect. Government spending doesn't make jobs, it makes work. Job's are sustainable over the long run because they are productive venture, work is digging a hole and filling it back up, using other peoples finite resources to pay for it.


Your statement of the premise is something of a strawman. Government spending grows the economy under certain conditions, such as during a recession. Government spending otherwise facilitates growth in the private sector - from the courts to the police to transportation to research to education and so forth. Yes, government spending makes work and in as much as people are paid to perform that work it makes jobs. Whether those jobs are sustainable in the long term isn't relevant to whether or not they are jobs. Really, you're sounding like Michael Steele here.

Quote: Original post by Dreddnafious Maelstrom
Quote:
Your smear jobs don't work as well as they used to. You know damn well that's not what Keynes intended.


He certainly did, thus the genesis of that quote.


No he didn't. The genesis of the quote was to downplay complaints that government deficits had negative long term impacts. You tried to make it sound like he wanted to kill everyone.

Quote: Original post by Dreddnafious Maelstrom
Quote:
Yes, I think welfare Keynesians are morally just and warfare Keynesians are not, but if I didn't think military Keynsians were Keynesians, I wouldn't have brought up military Keynesianism. I brought that up, not you.


You brought it up and then pointed out it wasn't "actually" Keynesian. This whole line of debate is about that very denial.

Quote:
Can't admit it? I volunteered it! I pointed it out.


You volunteered it to refute it. Otherwise what is our discord on this specific issue?


I brought it up here as an example of unproductive government spending ("One negative area of government spending in order to create demand..."). The reasons I had for introducing the subject do not change the fact that I introduced it first.

Quote: Original post by Dreddnafious Maelstrom
Quote:
Dude, you're not talking about rocket science. Don't pretend that you're some high and mighty expert in a rarefied and esoteric field. The bottom line is that you like to throw out a lot of jargon to obfuscate the points you try to make but are unable to. Case example, your botched attempt to show how tax cuts lead to jobs.


I'm not pretending to be an expert in an esoteric field, im fielding grief from you for using basic economic terms to describe the topic they were meant to describe. What you label as "jargon" is basic elementary terms that should be able to be used in the discussion. You've really never heard the term margin, or marginal, or at the margin? How about clearing rate? 10% of our debate is you googling up definitions of terms and saying im using them out of context when it's clear you dont understand the context even then.

Case in point "margin", case in point "clearing rate"

If your point is im not speaking to you like a 10 year old then I'll happily concede, I wasn't aware I was required to.


Of course I've heard those terms before. I asked you to define them so that there wouldn't be any doubts about what you meant by them. In the past you have misused words, omitted words and phrased things awkwardly. In that context, asking you to define your terms is highly reasonable. "...in the past the actual market clearing rate and the bubble rate were closer aligned." (link)

"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." - the Laughing Man
If for the sake of argument we assume that taxes are equivalent to government spending, how do we square the notion that government spending doesn't grow the economy with the fact that periods of greatest economic growth in the United States correspond with high tax rates?

Year    GDP adj ($bn)  Delta     Top Tax Rate1933    635.5                    63% 1934    704.2          68.7      63%   1935    766.9          62.7      63% 1936    866.6          99.7      79% 1937    911.1          44.5      79%1938    879.7         -31.4      79%1939    950.7          71.0      79%1940    1034.1         83.4      79% 1941    1211.1        177.0      88-94%1942    1435.4        224.3      88-94%1943    1670.9        235.5      88-94% 1944    1806.5        135.6      88-94% 1945    1786.3        -20.2      88-94%1946    1589.4       -196.9      81-92%1947    1574.5        -14.9      81-92%1948    1643.2         68.7      81-92%1949    1634.6         -8.6      81-92%1950    1777.3        142.7      81-92%1951    1915.0        137.7      81-92%1952    1988.3         73.3      81-92%1953    2079.5         91.2      81-92%1954    2065.4        -14.1      81-92%1955    2212.8        147.4      81-92%1956    2255.8         43.0      81-92%1957    2301.1         45.3      81-92%1958    2279.2        -21.9      81-92%1959    2441.3        162.1      81-92%1960    2501.8         60.5      81-92%


Economic History of the United States
Tax Cuts: Theology, Facts & Totally F**ked



Here's a different set of tax data: Top US Marginal Income Tax Rates, 1913--2003

                                Top marginal    TaxableYear    GDP adj ($bn)  Delta    tax rate (%)    income over--1929    865.2                   24              100,0001930    790.7         -74.5     25              100,0001931    739.9         -50.8     25              100,0001932    643.7         -96.2     63              1,000,0001933    635.5          -8.2     63              1,000,0001934    704.2          68.7     63              1,000,0001935    766.9          62.7     63              1,000,0001936    866.6          99.7     79              5,000,0001937    911.1          44.5     79              5,000,0001938    879.7         -31.4     79              5,000,0001939    950.7          71.0     79              5,000,0001940    1034.1         83.4     81.1            5,000,0001941    1211.1        177.0     81              5,000,0001942    1435.4        224.3     88              200,0001943    1670.9        235.5     88              200,0001944    1806.5        135.6     94             200,0001945    1786.3        -20.2     94              200,0001946    1589.4       -196.9     86.45           200,0001947    1574.5        -14.9     86.45           200,0001948    1643.2         68.7     82.13           400,0001949    1634.6         -8.6     82.13           400,0001950    1777.3        142.7     84.36           400,0001951    1915.0        137.7     91              400,0001952    1988.3         73.3     92              400,0001953    2079.5         91.2     92              400,0001954    2065.4        -14.1     91              400,0001955    2212.8        147.4     91              400,0001956    2255.8         43.0     91              400,0001957    2301.1         45.3     91              400,0001958    2279.2        -21.9     91              400,0001959    2441.3        162.1     91              400,0001960    2501.8         60.5     91              400,0001961    2560.0         58.2     91              400,0001962    2715.2        155.2     91              400,0001963    2834.0        118.8     91              400,0001964    2998.6        164.6     77              400,0001965    3191.1        192.5     70              200,0001966    3399.1        208.0     70              200,0001967    3484.6         85.5     70              200,0001968    3652.7        168.1     75.25           200,0001969    3765.4        112.7     77              200,000


[Edited by - LessBread on February 19, 2009 6:22:43 PM]
"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." - the Laughing Man
Quote: Original post by LessBread
If for the sake of argument we assume that taxes are equivalent to government spending, how do we square the notion that government spending doesn't grow the economy with the fact that periods of greatest economic growth in the United States correspond with high tax rates?

{hueg data tables}


I would be more convinced by data for percentage change in adjusted GDP per capita.
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Quote: Original post by Zahlman
Quote: Original post by LessBread
If for the sake of argument we assume that taxes are equivalent to government spending, how do we square the notion that government spending doesn't grow the economy with the fact that periods of greatest economic growth in the United States correspond with high tax rates?

{hueg data tables}


I would be more convinced by data for percentage change in adjusted GDP per capita.


I'd be more impressed if you put that presentation together. 40 records isn't a huge data table.

GDP measures the size of an economy. If we're asking about economic growth, we're asking about changes in the size of the economy, changes in GDP.
"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." - the Laughing Man
Quote: Original post by LessBread
GDP measures the size of an economy. If we're asking about economic growth, we're asking about changes in the size of the economy, changes in GDP.


Whatever the government does has little effect on population, though (barring totalitarian immigration, child-restriction etc. laws), and I would assume a government does not normally explicitly seek to grow the country's economy indirectly via population growth. We're talking here about the government's power to affect the economy by taxation and spending, and the hypothesis that higher taxes grow the economy, ceteris paribus. Right?

Anyway, I have tracked down the following data:

Real GDP Per Capita (2000 dollars)

1790	$9171791	$9431792	$9831793	$1,0301794	$1,1291795	$1,1631796	$1,1631797	$1,1501798	$1,1621799	$1,2061800	$1,2371801	$1,2581802	$1,2581803	$1,2411804	$1,2501805	$1,2761806	$1,2941807	$1,2551808	$1,2191809	$1,2721810	$1,3031811	$1,3231812	$1,3371813	$1,3751814	$1,3931815	$1,3671816	$1,3301817	$1,3221818	$1,3301819	$1,3151820	$1,3271821	$1,3581822	$1,3701823	$1,3791824	$1,4191825	$1,4401826	$1,4471827	$1,4481828	$1,4241829	$1,4351830	$1,5211831	$1,6001832	$1,6591833	$1,6601834	$1,6391835	$1,6781836	$1,6811837	$1,6481838	$1,6701839	$1,6681840	$1,6281841	$1,6181842	$1,6221843	$1,6551844	$1,7021845	$1,7591846	$1,8461847	$1,9081848	$1,9071849	$1,8681850	$1,8881851	$1,9691852	$2,1171853	$2,2101854	$2,2061855	$2,2251856	$2,2521857	$2,2021858	$2,2321859	$2,3391860	$2,3081861	$2,2981862	$2,5301863	$2,6661864	$2,6361865	$2,6501866	$2,4671867	$2,4471868	$2,4811869	$2,4841870	$2,4921871	$2,5401872	$2,6841873	$2,8341874	$2,8081875	$2,7371876	$2,7911877	$2,8721878	$2,9081879	$3,1841880	$3,3801881	$3,7141882	$3,8051883	$3,8001884	$3,6441885	$3,5731886	$3,7891887	$3,9891888	$4,1311889	$4,1621890	$4,4821891	$4,4381892	$4,5591893	$4,1951894	$3,9131895	$4,2881896	$4,1511897	$4,2551898	$4,6461899	$4,8841900	$4,9211901	$5,0831902	$5,2381903	$5,2921904	$5,0101905	$5,4651906	$5,5801907	$5,6211908	$4,9171909	$5,1691910	$5,1161911	$5,2001912	$5,3591913	$5,4621914	$4,9481915	$5,0111916	$5,6261917	$5,4101918	$5,8341919	$5,8521920	$5,7211921	$5,4831922	$5,7081923	$6,3501924	$6,4221925	$6,4751926	$6,8061927	$6,7771928	$6,7711929	$7,0991930	$6,4181931	$5,9601932	$5,1521933	$5,0561934	$5,5671935	$6,0211936	$6,7611937	$7,0651938	$6,7691939	$7,2561940	$7,8271941	$9,0791942	$10,6441943	$12,2201944	$13,0531945	$12,7661946	$11,2411947	$10,9251948	$11,2061949	$10,9571950	$11,7171951	$12,4121952	$12,6681953	$13,0321954	$12,7191955	$13,3891956	$13,4101957	$13,4351958	$13,0881959	$13,7821960	$13,8401961	$13,9321962	$14,5521963	$14,9711964	$15,6241965	$16,4201966	$17,2901967	$17,5331968	$18,1961969	$18,5731970	$18,3911971	$18,7711972	$19,5551973	$20,4841974	$20,1951975	$19,9611976	$20,8221977	$21,5651978	$22,5261979	$22,9821980	$22,6661981	$23,0071982	$22,3461983	$23,1461984	$24,5931985	$25,3821986	$26,0241987	$26,6641988	$27,5141989	$28,2211990	$28,4291991	$28,0071992	$28,5561993	$28,9401994	$29,7411995	$30,1281996	$30,8811997	$31,8861998	$32,8331999	$33,9042000	$34,7612001	$34,6682002	$34,8852003	$35,4322004	$36,3932005	$37,1222006	$37,7982007	$38,1922008	$38,326


Which produces the following graph, courtesy of another utility on the site:



Note that on a logarithmic plot, the slope of the line indicates percentage rate of growth.

The slope seems to increase slightly around 1840, and again around 1960. There is a large dip indicating the Great Depression, followed by the highest slope (by far) from 1933-1944 (and it is fairly constant during this period, which is impressive). Of course, much of this gain could be attributed to the WWII effort (interestingly, WWI seems to be a drop in the bucket). Immediately following the war there is actually a significant economic downturn for a couple of years.

But overall the trends seem to be quite stable. If we take the conservatives' side of view, we might stretch the truth to suggest that the 1964 tax cut is responsible for the third-phase increase in long-term growth. But further tax cuts in the early 1980s don't seem to have helped any further (except perhaps to kick the economy out of a temporary standstill), and raising the taxes again in the early 1990s doesn't seem to have had a significant effect either. And of course back in 1840, there was no income tax at all.

In short, I'm not convinced that the top marginal tax rate has any statistically significant effect on growth at all, except that dramatically lowering the rate after bad times seems to help a little, and dramatically raising it after bad times seems to help a lot. :) (A finer analysis suggests that changing the rate at all in good times hurts a little, but you have to lower the rates some time if you're going to keep raising them; there's an upper limit of 100% after all.)

EDIT: My guess is that the "fundamental shift" around 1840 - or perhaps a bit later than that? - is due to the Second Industrial Revolution and related goings-on, and around 1960 is due to the maturity of plastics and the related technologies (modern chemical industry). Oddly, computers and transistor technology don't seem to have been relevant (consider that, on the time scale of other industries, we're constantly shattering old limits, but the overall slope isn't budging).

EDIT 2: Since WWII the growth seems to be quite a bit more stable overall as well. I suspect that this can reasonably be attributed to governmental economic policy, but to other aspects of it. I think, basically, that we have a better idea of how to control inflation, interest rates, etc. so as to achieve homeostasis.
Quote: Original post by Zahlman
Quote: Original post by LessBread
GDP measures the size of an economy. If we're asking about economic growth, we're asking about changes in the size of the economy, changes in GDP.


Whatever the government does has little effect on population, though (barring totalitarian immigration, child-restriction etc. laws), and I would assume a government does not normally explicitly seek to grow the country's economy indirectly via population growth. We're talking here about the government's power to affect the economy by taxation and spending, and the hypothesis that higher taxes grow the economy, ceteris paribus. Right?


Advanced economies tend to grow as the population grows. Per capita figures compensate for that somewhat, but population growth is no guarantee of economic growth. Demand may exceed supply. Yes, the question amounts to what effect do tax rates have on the growth of the economy.

Quote: Original post by Zahlman
Anyway, I have tracked down the following data:

Real GDP Per Capita (2000 dollars)

*** Source Snippet Removed ***

Which produces the following graph, courtesy of another utility on the site:

[img src="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/1935/uslogrealgdppercapita.png"]

Note that on a logarithmic plot, the slope of the line indicates percentage rate of growth.


So the closer the line gets to vertical, the greater the percentage rate of growth? And the percentage rate is the rate of growth expressed as a percentage of the prior year?

Quote: Original post by Zahlman
The slope seems to increase slightly around 1840, and again around 1960. There is a large dip indicating the Great Depression, followed by the highest slope (by far) from 1933-1944 (and it is fairly constant during this period, which is impressive). Of course, much of this gain could be attributed to the WWII effort (interestingly, WWI seems to be a drop in the bucket). Immediately following the war there is actually a significant economic downturn for a couple of years.


The dip in the Great Depression marks 1937, when Roosevelt cut back on spending. The overall trend line appears to gain in steepness after WWII.

Quote: Original post by Zahlman
But overall the trends seem to be quite stable. If we take the conservatives' side of view, we might stretch the truth to suggest that the 1964 tax cut is responsible for the third-phase increase in long-term growth. But further tax cuts in the early 1980s don't seem to have helped any further (except perhaps to kick the economy out of a temporary standstill), and raising the taxes again in the early 1990s doesn't seem to have had a significant effect either. And of course back in 1840, there was no income tax at all.


The overall trends are reason for optimism, but nevertheless demand may exceed supply. The slope could flip as it did in 1929. Taxes were tripled and the slope flipped.

Quote: Original post by Zahlman
In short, I'm not convinced that the top marginal tax rate has any statistically significant effect on growth at all, except that dramatically lowering the rate after bad times seems to help a little, and dramatically raising it after bad times seems to help a lot. :) (A finer analysis suggests that changing the rate at all in good times hurts a little, but you have to lower the rates some time if you're going to keep raising them; there's an upper limit of 100% after all.)


Taxes were tripled during the Great Depression and the slope flipped. Maybe the tax rate should be charted along with the GDP?

Quote: Original post by Zahlman
EDIT 2: Since WWII the growth seems to be quite a bit more stable overall as well. I suspect that this can reasonably be attributed to governmental economic policy, but to other aspects of it. I think, basically, that we have a better idea of how to control inflation, interest rates, etc. so as to achieve homeostasis.


It seems to me that we have had some difficulty learning to control deflation.
"I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes." - the Laughing Man
Quote: Original post by LessBread
So the closer the line gets to vertical, the greater the percentage rate of growth?


Yes, that's a property of logarithmic plots. (If it were a linear plot, the slope of the line would indicate absolute growth.)

Quote: And the percentage rate is the rate of growth expressed as a percentage of the prior year?


Yes; are there other feasible definitions that I'm not aware of?

Quote:
The dip in the Great Depression marks 1937, when Roosevelt cut back on spending. The overall trend line appears to gain in steepness after WWII.


The data from 1945-1960 seemed a bit iffy to me. There was a lot of fallout from the war politically, and then finally the new era of American politics came in with Nixon's Southern Strategy; presumably these are related.

Quote:
Taxes were tripled during the Great Depression and the slope flipped. Maybe the tax rate should be charted along with the GDP?


I could probably spend an afternoon and do the research and drudge work myself. Probably not for a little while though.

I'd like to see the GDP charted against all tax rates, not just the highest. But then, since the income tax brackets have changed around a fair bit, that might be difficult to do in a fair and useful way.

Quote: It seems to me that we have had some difficulty learning to control deflation.


:) Personally I find the interest rates ridiculously low now (and they've been like this for the past few to several years). Sure, it's great for squeezing out the last few drops of those deliciously lemony home markets (all kinds of metaphor and pun are intended in there... I think), but how am I supposed to save for my future?

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