So I was wondering if standard midi was considered out-dated for the musical indie industry as far as game making is concerned. Sure, it IS out-dated if you compare to games released nowadays, but I was wondering if making an rpg with midi music would truly affect the gameplay negatively, or rather help achieve a retro feel to it.

Absolutely NOT, it's still pretty much de-facto.

Sure, the technology's improved. You won't catch me messing around a studio without Toontrack's Drumkit from Hell attached to some Roland V-Drums, along with a gargantuan library of VST plugins and gadgetry.

If you're thinking of the old-school MIDI sounds (the Doom days, etc), then you're thinking wrong. Things have changed :)

MIDI is not sound.

MIDI is not audio.

MIDI is an electronic musical data communications protocol--it is still used to communicate musical data.


The problem with distributing MIDI with a game instead of rendering it to audio is that you have absolutely no control over the actual audio result.


An audio file is created by recording the audio result of a musical performance.

MIDI, however, is more like instructions for a musical performance and the audio is rendered by a MIDI playback engine in real time.

What this means is that you will not have control over the end resulting audio because that will be entirely dependent upon the MIDI functionality of the end-user's sound card.

When squaresoft distributed Final Fantasies 7 and 8 on the PC, they required the user to install a proprietary MIDI software playback device (The Yamaha XG Synth) in order to standardize the MIDI performances on end-user's computers.

Quote: Original post by Dannthr
MIDI is not sound.

MIDI is not audio.

MIDI is an electronic musical data communications protocol--it is still used to communicate musical data.


The problem with distributing MIDI with a game instead of rendering it to audio is that you have absolutely no control over the actual audio result.


An audio file is created by recording the audio result of a musical performance.

MIDI, however, is more like instructions for a musical performance and the audio is rendered by a MIDI playback engine in real time.

What this means is that you will not have control over the end resulting audio because that will be entirely dependent upon the MIDI functionality of the end-user's sound card.

When squaresoft distributed Final Fantasies 7 and 8 on the PC, they required the user to install a proprietary MIDI software playback device (The Yamaha XG Synth) in order to standardize the MIDI performances on end-user's computers.

This is also why midi was so useful back in the days, instructions for how to play a song take up far less space than an actual recording, For games today its less useful since we have far larger amounts of memory to play with and the cpu power to keep the music in a compressed format until its actually time to send it to the soundcard.

That's true and still only true where MIDI playback engines are basically standardized, such as on mobile phones--as they have a much smaller bandwidth, storage, and memory.


Thankfully, FF8 for the PC did not allow you to change the outgoing MIDI port settings, and if you'll notice, FF8's XG synth came with other ambient sound effects as well that were cued by MIDI in real time.

I was completely abusive of the MIDI setup in FF7 even playing some songs on my Roland JV1080. It sounded awful.

Quote: Original post by Dannthr
MIDI is not sound.

MIDI is not audio.

MIDI is an electronic musical data communications protocol--it is still used to communicate musical data.


The problem with distributing MIDI with a game instead of rendering it to audio is that you have absolutely no control over the actual audio result.


An audio file is created by recording the audio result of a musical performance.

MIDI, however, is more like instructions for a musical performance and the audio is rendered by a MIDI playback engine in real time.

What this means is that you will not have control over the end resulting audio because that will be entirely dependent upon the MIDI functionality of the end-user's sound card.

When squaresoft distributed Final Fantasies 7 and 8 on the PC, they required the user to install a proprietary MIDI software playback device (The Yamaha XG Synth) in order to standardize the MIDI performances on end-user's computers.

I was referencing good old days midi, besides, I already have averted the issue with non-standard soundchip synths by exporting to mp3. So the question really was, is retro 16bits music really that annoying or can it trigger a retro feel to the game?

Quote: Original post by Dannthr
MIDI is not sound.

MIDI is not audio.

MIDI is an electronic musical data communications protocol--it is still used to communicate musical data.


The problem with distributing MIDI with a game instead of rendering it to audio is that you have absolutely no control over the actual audio result.


An audio file is created by recording the audio result of a musical performance.

MIDI, however, is more like instructions for a musical performance and the audio is rendered by a MIDI playback engine in real time.

What this means is that you will not have control over the end resulting audio because that will be entirely dependent upon the MIDI functionality of the end-user's sound card.

When squaresoft distributed Final Fantasies 7 and 8 on the PC, they required the user to install a proprietary MIDI software playback device (The Yamaha XG Synth) in order to standardize the MIDI performances on end-user's computers.

I was referencing good old days midi, besides, I already have averted the issue with non-standard soundchip synths by exporting to mp3. So the question really was, is retro 16bits music really that annoying or can it trigger a retro feel to the game?

Quote: I was referencing good old days midi...

MIDI, in itself, still is the same as it was in the good old days. The way it is used (in rare cases) or the quality of samples attached to MIDI has changed.

Quote: ...is retro 16bits music really that annoying or can it trigger a retro feel to the game?

Depends on how well the music is written and the vibe, playability and look of the rest of the game. I'd say there are many cases where it can work very well and some cases where it can become very annoying. You're not really giving us enough information to give you good feedback.

Thanks,

Nathan

Here is a showcase example for a rpg project. This song is dated to 2001 though and possibly won't make the cut for the final soundtrack, but you get the hang of it. I don't recall the exact scene in which it was meant to be used, but it is very rpg-esque. The question remains simple, would it ruin the gameplay to settle for this kind of music or would it simply add to its retro feel (assuming we intend to make the game feel snes-retro like)

http://www.geocities.com/mikenewman2002/Jars_MALADE_2.00.mid

You're asking 2 questions and that's why there's this confusion.

The question you really mean was answered by nsmadsen. "Vibe, playabiliy and look of the rest of the game" is what's going to factor into the music quality. If you want it to sound more SNESish or even gameboyish, then the only question is does it match the mood of the game. Chances are it'll make it feel more retro. But you may want the retro look with higher-quality music to help inspire a different mood when playing. It's kinda up to you and what you want to get out of it... no one can tell you what kind of mood you want to convey in your game.

The question everyone thought you were asking was also answered by nsmadsen, as well as others. See that file you linked us to, (which I have no way to listen to at work without a pair of headphones), will sound different to most likely each and every one of us. Depending on the use of various music characteristics besides just the note, the file might sound like an orchestra on some people's hardware. On others it might sound like a gameboy. On some it might sound like giberish. Just depends on how your midi output is mapped.

So yeah... go for old-school sound if you want that old-school feel. Go for a higher quality of sound (for lack of a better phrase) if that fits the mood. Whichever way you go, you're going to annoy some players and please others. No matter what.

Cheers
-Scott