I''ve just learned C++ and some MFC, and I want to write some kind of 3d networked fighting game/engine for my windows C++ application development class.

I will have 3 months to do the project. I need to write a design document by thursday. Can someone point me to some resources and help me out? This type of project really interests me, but is it too much for 3 months while I have no prior 3d/network programming experience?

Or should I stick to somthing more realistic, like writing some utility of some sort? I''m thinking a gnutella client otherwise...

Thanks!

quote: Original post by Sof

xaxa -

I think you are overcomplicating this way too much, the great thing about these games IS the simplicity. You describe them as "very unrealistic" but again that is one of the great things about them, the increadible strength and ability you feel, realism spealism

I just seams like you asking for something from these games that they were just never meant to supply

I agree that gameplay should be simple in a fighting game, but that doesn''t mean the development needs to be. I don''t think that xaxa''s ideas would have to take away from the simplicity of playing the game. However, implementing these more realistic aspects will change the games feel which may or may not be desired by the designer.

--
Todd
http://www.3dcgi.com/

quote: Original post by Edwin Park

I''ve just learned C++ and some MFC, and I want to write some kind of 3d networked fighting game/engine for my windows C++ application development class.

I will have 3 months to do the project. I need to write a design document by thursday. Can someone point me to some resources and help me out? This type of project really interests me, but is it too much for 3 months while I have no prior 3d/network programming experience?

Or should I stick to somthing more realistic, like writing some utility of some sort? I''m thinking a gnutella client otherwise...

Thanks!

You''ll probably have better luck getting a response if you post a new thread, since this is off the topic of the discussion.


--
Todd
http://www.3dcgi.com/

Alright, I've been weighing a lot of your suggestions in my mind, and here are some current thoughts I have on it...

- The fighting game I am making is intentionally unrealistic; I am not trying for real violence. Imho, Mortal Kombat was somewhat tasteless, though the real reason I didn't like it as much as a Street Fighter was simply because it wasn't as good a fighting game. This game should be somewhere between Dragon Ball Z and the Matrix; lots of fast spacial movement covering great distances, including vertical distances (maybe not that fast, but a heck of a lot less limited spacially than something like Tekken). A lot of energy attacks, heh. A lot.
- The combinations to do special moves will be fairly simple to execute; strategy will revolve primarily around consideration of power level supply and likeliness for the given move to work, weighed against any particular ways the attack would make oneself vulnerable. I guess that's like any fighting game...But imagine it...in dynamic, hyper, full 3D, ooh...Seriously, as I see it in my mind's eye, it's great. And what I'm really excited about is how much I've coded so far is actually starting to look like it...
- For those that like hand to hand combat, but who don't like having to punch in a complicated chain of controls in order to do a combo, I had an idea for something that I'm now referring to as a Natural Combo. Basically, by doing simple combinations of punching and kicking with whichever arm or leg and by pressing towards or away at different times, the player will do different variations of attacks. By stringing these variations together, one can easily create a little combo as some attacks naturally stun the opponent for a split second so you can make another attack. I'll try to design it such that varying attacks works best in these Natural Combos, so that you can't do the same move over and over and over again to form one long unstoppable combo.
- I also like the idea that Killer Instinct proposed; the combo breaker. I believe it can greatly balance play, for those that could potentially get very good with combos (though my game, being as spacial as it is, will probably lead more towards distanced, energy projectile battles...though it will depend greatly on the character you choose) and I may follow the same sort of rock/paper/scissors formula for breaking a combo. Maybe block + controller direction + attack...and depending on a certain comparison, one either breaks, escapes, or is still pummeled by the combo...Hmm, perhaps having combo breakers in the game would be enough incentive for combo people to vary their attacks, so their moves won't be predictable. What do you think on the topic of combo breakers?
- I am deciding that I am going to try for a maximum of at least 4 players in one given fight, at the same computer, unicamera. Anything past that and I'll have to learn network programming, heh. For this to work, I'll need a very intelligent camera, and I think I can handle that. Also, with more than one opponent, I had the idea of allowing for the ability to lock-on to an opponent, similar to Z-targetting in Zelda 64. When locked, one will autoface the opponent (which leads to circling, if two are in a match, autolocked, and the camera autorotates with them to keep one on the left...Which is how I have it now, in the pre-pre-Alpha stage, heh) and when unlocked, one could move freely, but they must beware of being attacked from behind.
- The fighting arenas will be of different kinds, some involving bottomless pits, others being the sort that stretch on horizontally forever. I will definitely have support for sloped planes, platforms you can jump on, etc. I'm tired of the same-old same-old flat-plane-forever arenas...
- There will be no power ups of any kind. They lead away from skill competitions and towards luck competitions, and I won't have that - not in my game, no sir. The closest I might come is for some stages to have death-traps, but they would be of the sort that are obviously death-traps, so it's a matter of skill whether you can get your opponent into it, since they should (in their right mind) avoid it at all costs. I might also have something akin to boxes you can pick up and throw, maybe. That could work...Also, by death traps, I don't mean death traps. I don't intend to have death in the game, unless perhaps it's some part of the actual story. My camera system, as I came up with it, is based on focusing on any points of interest within a local area - such death traps and interactive objects would be consider points of interest...
- I had an idea to make a game, something like Ultimate Super Generic Fighter II Turbo Championship Edition EX Plus Alpha Jet, in which I was going to have all the stereotypes in there, poking fun at fighting games in general. I may yet make it; nobody can steal my idea! We all now know Bucket_Head came up with it. Wavinator's post reminded me of it. Nah, this one will be serious though, and I won't have stereotypes, heh. The characters will be cool, I assure you.

Also, Wavinator: There has been a fighting game that had power-ups, Super Smash Bros. for the N64. It's also interesting in that it supports 4 players at a time. I like some things about it and dislike others; I like that there are 4 players...I dislike that, though the graphics are in 3D, the gameplay is in 2D...and I dislike the powerups. While they may be fun, and it works for a Nintendo game, it wouldn't in the sort of serious fighter I want to make.

What do you think? Any comments on the ideas I've come up with so far for my game? Any other thoughts on what should go into the perfect fighting game? Is anything I've thought of so far just plain, or even horribly wrong? Please let me know! Thanks for your time.

- Bucket_Head

- Hai, watashi no chichi no kuruma ga oishikatta desu!
...or, in other words, "Yes, my dad's car was deliscious!"

Edited by - Bucket_Head on May 24, 2001 5:51:31 AM

Sounds good, but one thing bothers me...

It sounds like you want to give the players a lot of freedom of movement (bottomless pits, infinite horizontal planes etc) but if you only have one camera, what do you do when all four players bugger off in different directions? Zooming out is OK up to a point, but eventually the characters will just be single pixels. Furthermore, will this freedom of movement actually add to the gameplay? Fighting games keep the players close to each other for a reason, namely so they can fight properly. If players get can get a long way away, what is to stop a bad player drawing the game out into a long and tedious game of cat and mouse?

Hey Bucket_head your idea sounds almost exactly like the project that I am beginning to design for a future project. Down to fighting style, the only thing that seems to be different is the lack of network support. I would really be interested in sharing some ideas or even possible in the near future helping you with your project. If you want to consider this email me at workboxjones@netscape.net and we can talk and kinda of exchange ideas. I have a pretty basic design doc for what I have been working on, about 20-30 pages but I dont have exact spec or anything yet. (not to that point still conceptulizing while I learn). If not good luck I like the idea.


"There is humor in everything depending on which prespective you look from."

Well Sandman, the simplest solution is to put a cap on how far apart fighters can stray from the average location of all the fighters present. Another is to not have infinitely large areas...I probably communicated the wrong idea earlier; I don''t really mean for areas to be huge, just considerably larger than those in traditional fighting games, that''s all.

As far as the freedom of movement, I think so, definitely. It bothers me in all 2D games that you can''t sidestep (without some sort of hack) and I really like the idea of being able to run around a 3D arena and battle freely. I don''t mean for players to get too far from each other; things can be worked in, such as possibly time limit (I want that to be optional) and maybe some sort of penalty for being too passive or camping...Basically by freedom of movement I didn''t mean to indicate moving very far but rather to indicate easily moving anywhere throughout the 3D space that you''re given to fight in.

As for multiplayer, I could conceivably work in networked play...One thing I had been basing the whole project on had been the smart 3rd person camera, but I can still do that with networked play - POIs (points of interest) within a certain radius of the key POI (being the player who owns the camera in question, playing at that computer) are considered in the formulas that determine camera position and orientation. When they leave the designated area about the key POI, they drop out, and the camera smoothly turns/moves to a position to better view the existing POIs.

The alternative plan, with multiplayer at the same computer, is to simply not let players leave this area. In such a setup, all players are considered equally and there is no one key POI, unless you count the average of all those players'' locations.

I think it would be really cool to work in support for both multiplayer at the same comp and multiplayer across a network. Maybe two people on one comp could play against two people on another comp...Wouldn''t that be interesting?

Chronoslade - sounds like a cool idea, I''ll email ya.

Oh, one thing - I have been planning this with certain game controller in mind. How many of us here are familiar with the Gravis Gamepad Pro? The one I have is basically the same as a Playstation controller (non-analog) and the way it works is this: you associate buttons on the controller with keys on the keyboard, so it''s just like you hit those keys by hitting those buttons. With this kind of setup, it''s extremely easy to just assign whatever buttons on the keyboard and then set it up nicely for the gamepad. What do you people think is the ideal control setup for this sort of game on what''s basically a Playstation gamepad? What is the ideal control setup for this sort of thing in general? Is using a gamepad like this a good or a bad idea? Any thoughts you have on the topic are welcome.

I had been considering how exactly to assign controls...I had been thinking of having two punches and two kicks, and that would likely comprise that right four buttons, but then I''d want a jump button and possibly duck/action and/or a block button...Should those go in on the top four?...Are working camera controls into the controller a good idea? I''d imagine probably not; you''d end up with people fighting over the camera, when they should be focusing on the battle at hand instead.

Of course I want to allow the player flexibility, the power to reassign their controls, and so forth...But I''d like to think of an ideal control scheme...Hmm...Any suggestions?

- Bucket_Head

- Hai, watashi no chichi no kuruma ga oishikatta desu!
...or, in other words, "Yes, my dad''s car was deliscious!"

I''ve been toying with the idea of an FPF (first person fighter), mainly because melee combat has really sucked in most first person games. I''ve had a few different ideas, including having to "aim" parries, attacks that will hit the character closest to you within a given radius, etc. Any comments on this thought?

Marvel Super Heroes by Capcom had the gems you could get that gave you different powers. I don''t like random elements but it worked pretty well. You could knock gems away from people and race to get them as they fell from the sky. It added "fun factor" without really taking away much strategy.

And then there was Powerstone, AKA Gem Collector. How NOT to make a game with powerups.

quote: Original post by Wavinator


Have powerups ever been introduced to the arena? I can''t remember a fighting game that does this.

I think you should see the movie Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. Although the fight scenes were extremely unrealistic, they were very cool. It also had a good story and almost no ninjas. The characters'' weapons were awesome too. This movie would give you a lot of inspiration.