Thr33d, I agree with you in part.
David20321, in response:
>If there are ways to prove all of them, how can any be right? >Why don''t you show me+the rest of these forums one? If I see a >real proof of any of them, then it would be true.
What I meant is their are ''ways'', which is what I have said. Not all of them are correct, but it is possible to prove it is my point. I will not show you the answer on this forum because it is not going to convince anyone until we are willing to at least consider an argument. Besides, if you really are curious, you will look for it yourself.
>Great so in your religion random people are "chosen" to go to >hell by the all-loving God. That sounds great. What happened to >all your arguments of ''free will''? LOL If God created everyone >however he wanted, why did he
> create people who became "unbelievers"? If you believe in >fate and prophecies, there is no free will, they are mutually >exclusive. What about the prophecy that the world would end in >2000? Check your watch or your calender, oops!
> Wrong again!
You could say ''random'', but then they wouldn''t be chosen would they? An all-loving God who is also described as just. To some He shows mercy, and some justice - justice is not bad, it is just giving someone what they deserve. As for ''free will'', my understanding of it is different to yours. Our free-will extends to certain things, but not all. If you are saying am I free to choose between heaven and hell? No, because the choice is God''s. Am I free to go to the shops tomorrow? Well, presuming you are alive, you can walk/have petrol, etc. By the way, He doesn''t send people to hell in that he chooses some to go to heaven and some hell...He chooses some to cleanse of their sins who are then subjects of His mercy, and then the rest get ''rewarded'' according to their deeds, which is, for everyone, hell. Understand yet?
>If all these prophecies about Jesus dying blah-blah are all true >and were written before his birth, he obviously just read them >and followed the example of the fictional character. A lot like >the character in the movie "Nurse Betty".
> This is another example of trying to use the bible to >justify Christianity, it doesn''t work, sorry. It''s like saying >"Star Wars is real! Look at the movie! If Tie Fighters don''t >exist, what are those things flying around shooting lasers!"
Not ''obviously''. If you have read them then you yourself would know that many of them were beyond His control to orchestrate them as a man. But you didn''t know that, I''m sure. My point was that you need to read them and see for yourself...then you would know that he couldn''t just ''make them happen''.
>I don''t know what kind of people you''ve been hanging out with >who kill and trample people, but in case you haven''t noticed >yet, atheists and agnostics are not monstrous criminals with no >decency and kindness, we just don''t do it
> because some super-being told us to, we aren''t forced to >like Christians, we do it because we are nice people. Also if >everybody in the world killed each other, you would get anarchy >which would degenerate into mass destruction
> and low life spans, thus going against evolution. If we >kill someone, we will be killed, or should be(I am pro >death-penalty), thus insuring that killers dont contribute to >the gene pool because they are not contributing members of
> society, they detract from it.
I''m not saying that you ''do'' these things. I was asking why don''t you? What is the point? This is just how I would feel. I''m not using this as evidence for God, though it could be taken that way. Instead, you are not living up to what you believe. You claim to believe in evolution, survival of the fittest, yet I''m sure that you encourage hospitals and other such life-saving endeavours. If we kill someone we would be killed only because man has instituted anti-evolutionary systems. In a world where the people actually lived out the evolutionary lifestyle the strong would not be killed because of the exact reason that they are the strong, smartest, or whatever. I suppose by the same argument we could say that the top businessmen, world leaders, etc, are the true highest form of evolution in humanity because they lead the rest of us happless mortals through their channels.
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religion in the forums?!?!
122
May 15, 2001 06:35 AM
Well, over the last year or two, I''ve seen a number of threads exactly like this. Heck, I''ve even participated in a few. And not a single one of these conversations ever changed a person''s way of thinking. Why argue what you believe or don''t believe when you are just going to push the other person further away from what your trying to convince the them? Just by reading this thread, it''s a given that people are already in a ''defensive posture'' because what we believe or don''t believe is part of who we are. So if someone argues against what we believe, we take it personally as if they are also against us.
It just doesn''t seem like there''s any use in it - and if there''s no use in arguing, we all must just like to hear ourselves talk given the way we keep going at it. :-)
I''m all for finding out the truth in things, investigating them, and intelligent discussion, especially when people will at least consider all sides of the arguements before making a descision that''s right for them. That''s because every decision we make will have an affect or a result on us - so it''s important to think things through. But when it just comes down to arguing that "I''m right and you''re wrong", no matter how firm you are in your belief, it''s just not going to accomplish anything.
"But avoid foolish controversies ... because these are unprofitable and useless" Titus 3:9
(heck, even if you don''t believe the bible is true, you have to admit that sometimes there''s good wisdom found in it.)
It just doesn''t seem like there''s any use in it - and if there''s no use in arguing, we all must just like to hear ourselves talk given the way we keep going at it. :-)
I''m all for finding out the truth in things, investigating them, and intelligent discussion, especially when people will at least consider all sides of the arguements before making a descision that''s right for them. That''s because every decision we make will have an affect or a result on us - so it''s important to think things through. But when it just comes down to arguing that "I''m right and you''re wrong", no matter how firm you are in your belief, it''s just not going to accomplish anything.
"But avoid foolish controversies ... because these are unprofitable and useless" Titus 3:9
(heck, even if you don''t believe the bible is true, you have to admit that sometimes there''s good wisdom found in it.)
122
May 15, 2001 12:11 PM
jesus was a silly crack head. He was an insane criminal just like Joseph Smith. Let''s all get together and take a healthy dump on a bible or three. 
I''ve been thinking... wouldn''t it be fun to walk into a church during mass and dry hump the crucifix? Holey jesus christ on a stick!
Go Romans! Go Romans! Hm. Ok, now I''m bored.
-----------------------------
www.haterade.com
I''ve been thinking... wouldn''t it be fun to walk into a church during mass and dry hump the crucifix? Holey jesus christ on a stick!
Go Romans! Go Romans! Hm. Ok, now I''m bored.
-----------------------------
www.haterade.com
-----------------------------www.haterade.com
382
May 15, 2001 02:06 PM
Hello again,
I just wanted to make some more comments, and share my view in some of the chaos since my last message. *grin*
Ok, first off, I agree with, and was my point also, what several others have said concerning the inability to change peoples'' minds about God/Christianity through this forum. Yes, in my opinion this is not the place to ''converse'' or ''discuss'' this topic! *grin* In case you didn''t notice, this topic has mainly just led to anger, hate, and plain stupidity being thrown back and forth at each other! This obviously isn''t right, and beyond that, is totally immature! Lol, it seems some, maybe even many, of those participating in this thread are serious, mature, and open in their dealings with the messages and words being said by others. However, is it just me, or do the majority of those involved seem to have a chip on their shoulder; and for some reason need to get ''even''? They fight with their words, thinking they will somehow dash away the other''s defenses with their own bitter words! Is this not foolish and (no offense) stupid?! Observe what you say; for your own sake. Don''t dishonor yourself by an outward display of your lack of control! I don''t know what the school system teaches you, but in this world you are judged, by others, of your actions and words; you don''t go through live unscathed, your words do not simply slide off of people. What you say leaves it''s mark, will you later be proud of what you have said (has it been benefital to others) or ashamed, maybe even insensitive to the immaturity of your words, and the scars they left? If my words have not been good and edifying to those around me, than I atleast hope to be apologetic later for my slip in wisdom and my foolish actions...
Lol, I don''t know what I''m fighting against. I hope that my message doesn''t offend others; it''s point is to try to bring an elegant closure to those who would try to spread anger, and to turn us against each other. By those who are mature, may those who have not been be put to shame and silence.
Todd: I respect your view, and what you''ve said. This is my interest as well, however, as a Christain, I also know it''s not for me to be silent in my beliefs. I will share, but I wish to speak wisely, not foolishly, weather it be because of the place, time, or what I''ve said.
I really don''t think this topic will help any except to (I hope) give those who wish to talk maturely with people about this subject an idea of who those people would (and wouldn''t) be.
As for me, now is not the time or place for my ''testimony'', lol, I have my views, and have come upon them honestly and truthfully, not being deceitful to myself in the least. What I believe I will stand by; I wish not to anger any, but some have said that these conversations always lead to a ''I''m right and you''re wrong'' attitude. This is totally understandable, because I feel I know one thing to be correct, thus by my standpoint others are incorrect. But my goal is not to say that to them! It is to be understood that two will not usually agree with each other on a subject such as this, it is our responsibility to not dwell upon this, but to be open and honest with each other in what we discuss.
What I''ve found of my views is, not very many agree with me totally! In fact, I don''t think I know one person who, on what we''ve covered reliegously, holds the same views as me! All I know is, I must do what I know, in my heart, beyond my own comfort, but for the care of another (my God, and secondly, those around me), what I know to be good, right, and perfect. For the welfare of others, and not self seeking.
Excuse me, but this, what I''ve just said, is what love is! Yeah, I said love! Love is not an emotion, it''s not sex, it doesn''t seek itself (as in; if you love another, then it has nothing to do with your benefit, but only in the interest of the other), love is what this world needs. And I''m not trying to start some sort of ''revolution'' or something (nor go back to the ''free sex''/''free drugs'' sixties). I wish to confront you in your actions: Make it a point to think before you act; (interpitation to self: Don''t be a jerk!). Lol, and what I say is to myself as much as it is to anyone else! I don''t claim to be good or perfect, nor be unaffected by the choice of doing the wrong thing. The difference I profess is, I wish to do the right, because of my beliefs, for someone outside of myself; this is the base of my faith. I in myself am not that pretty of a picture; I''ve stumbled, I''ve messed up, and I know that I cannot live life how I wish to by myself. When I wish to do what''s right, I only succeed to fail after effort. Also, why do I wish to do what is good and right? Of what will it benefit me? This is part of why I have come to the conclusion that, I can''t live for myself anymore. As for my belief in God, thats another matter, and one which I will discuss in a not so heated debate area *grin*.
By the way, don''t be ignorant; read the Bible! If nothing else it is a book full of wisdom, and has many principles which will help you to live a happier life. Don''t settle for second best though; this would be my challenge to fellow Christians. *grin* Go all out for Him. And what is the reward? Contentment, joy, peace and wholeness.
May those who believe in Him abide by what He says; living fully for Him that their joy may be complete. (Lol, and the verse for today: Colossians 4:2-6)
In all Sincerity,
-Michael G.
( thr33d@yahoo.com , icq: 51439946 )
Ps. Have a great day; and don''t get burnt out on life! Joy is in the present, live life in the present, for if you don''t you shall have neither past or future to look upon.
I just wanted to make some more comments, and share my view in some of the chaos since my last message. *grin*
Ok, first off, I agree with, and was my point also, what several others have said concerning the inability to change peoples'' minds about God/Christianity through this forum. Yes, in my opinion this is not the place to ''converse'' or ''discuss'' this topic! *grin* In case you didn''t notice, this topic has mainly just led to anger, hate, and plain stupidity being thrown back and forth at each other! This obviously isn''t right, and beyond that, is totally immature! Lol, it seems some, maybe even many, of those participating in this thread are serious, mature, and open in their dealings with the messages and words being said by others. However, is it just me, or do the majority of those involved seem to have a chip on their shoulder; and for some reason need to get ''even''? They fight with their words, thinking they will somehow dash away the other''s defenses with their own bitter words! Is this not foolish and (no offense) stupid?! Observe what you say; for your own sake. Don''t dishonor yourself by an outward display of your lack of control! I don''t know what the school system teaches you, but in this world you are judged, by others, of your actions and words; you don''t go through live unscathed, your words do not simply slide off of people. What you say leaves it''s mark, will you later be proud of what you have said (has it been benefital to others) or ashamed, maybe even insensitive to the immaturity of your words, and the scars they left? If my words have not been good and edifying to those around me, than I atleast hope to be apologetic later for my slip in wisdom and my foolish actions...
Lol, I don''t know what I''m fighting against. I hope that my message doesn''t offend others; it''s point is to try to bring an elegant closure to those who would try to spread anger, and to turn us against each other. By those who are mature, may those who have not been be put to shame and silence.
Todd: I respect your view, and what you''ve said. This is my interest as well, however, as a Christain, I also know it''s not for me to be silent in my beliefs. I will share, but I wish to speak wisely, not foolishly, weather it be because of the place, time, or what I''ve said.
I really don''t think this topic will help any except to (I hope) give those who wish to talk maturely with people about this subject an idea of who those people would (and wouldn''t) be.
As for me, now is not the time or place for my ''testimony'', lol, I have my views, and have come upon them honestly and truthfully, not being deceitful to myself in the least. What I believe I will stand by; I wish not to anger any, but some have said that these conversations always lead to a ''I''m right and you''re wrong'' attitude. This is totally understandable, because I feel I know one thing to be correct, thus by my standpoint others are incorrect. But my goal is not to say that to them! It is to be understood that two will not usually agree with each other on a subject such as this, it is our responsibility to not dwell upon this, but to be open and honest with each other in what we discuss.
What I''ve found of my views is, not very many agree with me totally! In fact, I don''t think I know one person who, on what we''ve covered reliegously, holds the same views as me! All I know is, I must do what I know, in my heart, beyond my own comfort, but for the care of another (my God, and secondly, those around me), what I know to be good, right, and perfect. For the welfare of others, and not self seeking.
Excuse me, but this, what I''ve just said, is what love is! Yeah, I said love! Love is not an emotion, it''s not sex, it doesn''t seek itself (as in; if you love another, then it has nothing to do with your benefit, but only in the interest of the other), love is what this world needs. And I''m not trying to start some sort of ''revolution'' or something (nor go back to the ''free sex''/''free drugs'' sixties). I wish to confront you in your actions: Make it a point to think before you act; (interpitation to self: Don''t be a jerk!). Lol, and what I say is to myself as much as it is to anyone else! I don''t claim to be good or perfect, nor be unaffected by the choice of doing the wrong thing. The difference I profess is, I wish to do the right, because of my beliefs, for someone outside of myself; this is the base of my faith. I in myself am not that pretty of a picture; I''ve stumbled, I''ve messed up, and I know that I cannot live life how I wish to by myself. When I wish to do what''s right, I only succeed to fail after effort. Also, why do I wish to do what is good and right? Of what will it benefit me? This is part of why I have come to the conclusion that, I can''t live for myself anymore. As for my belief in God, thats another matter, and one which I will discuss in a not so heated debate area *grin*.
By the way, don''t be ignorant; read the Bible! If nothing else it is a book full of wisdom, and has many principles which will help you to live a happier life. Don''t settle for second best though; this would be my challenge to fellow Christians. *grin* Go all out for Him. And what is the reward? Contentment, joy, peace and wholeness.
May those who believe in Him abide by what He says; living fully for Him that their joy may be complete. (Lol, and the verse for today: Colossians 4:2-6)
In all Sincerity,
-Michael G.
( thr33d@yahoo.com , icq: 51439946 )
Ps. Have a great day; and don''t get burnt out on life! Joy is in the present, live life in the present, for if you don''t you shall have neither past or future to look upon.
122
May 15, 2001 02:41 PM
>>"Lol, and what I say is to myself as much as it is to
>>anyone else! I don''t claim to be good or perfect, nor be
>>unaffected by the choice of doing the wrong thing. The
>>difference I profess is, I wish to do the right, because of
>>my beliefs, for someone outside of myself; this is the
>>base of my faith.
I''m sorry, but I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to express. Are you saying that you want to do "the right thing" so that you can get "Contentment, joy, peace and wholeness."?
You think you are, of course, one of God''s elite chosen people who go to heaven? If everyone is created by God who controls everything, how could he punish people for doing what he has fated them to do, that is gain knowledge and find all the evidence that he doesn''t exist? Suppose you aren''t the ''chosen few'', you are just a normal person like the rest of us, so I guess according to your fellow Christian tyreth who thinks everyone deserves hell, but God chooses to forgive some people for their sins which he put them on earth to do.
>>"I''m not saying that you ''do'' these things. I was asking
>>why don''t you? What is the point?"
Umm... are you saying since I don''t have to worry about going to hell I should go around killing people? Why would I want to kill anyone? I have no reason to and I would go to jail for life, and anyways we have (most of us) evolved to not kill other humans unless it is absolutely necessary.
>>anyone else! I don''t claim to be good or perfect, nor be
>>unaffected by the choice of doing the wrong thing. The
>>difference I profess is, I wish to do the right, because of
>>my beliefs, for someone outside of myself; this is the
>>base of my faith.
I''m sorry, but I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to express. Are you saying that you want to do "the right thing" so that you can get "Contentment, joy, peace and wholeness."?
You think you are, of course, one of God''s elite chosen people who go to heaven? If everyone is created by God who controls everything, how could he punish people for doing what he has fated them to do, that is gain knowledge and find all the evidence that he doesn''t exist? Suppose you aren''t the ''chosen few'', you are just a normal person like the rest of us, so I guess according to your fellow Christian tyreth who thinks everyone deserves hell, but God chooses to forgive some people for their sins which he put them on earth to do.
>>"I''m not saying that you ''do'' these things. I was asking
>>why don''t you? What is the point?"
Umm... are you saying since I don''t have to worry about going to hell I should go around killing people? Why would I want to kill anyone? I have no reason to and I would go to jail for life, and anyways we have (most of us) evolved to not kill other humans unless it is absolutely necessary.
382
May 15, 2001 04:24 PM
In reply to David's message, regarding what I said:
>>"Lol, and what I say is to myself as much as it is to
>>anyone else! I don't claim to be good or perfect, nor be
>>unaffected by the choice of doing the wrong thing. The
>>difference I profess is, I wish to do the right, because of
>>my beliefs, for someone outside of myself; this is the
>>base of my faith.
I'm sorry, but I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to express. Are you saying that you want to do "the right thing" so that you can get "Contentment, joy, peace and wholeness."?
----------
Ok, here is where the line is drawn, where human intellegence and wisdom in God clash. What I mean to say by that is, I've made the decision to do what's right, through the aid my God gives me (like I said; this defies logic, and you're going to think me crazy; but you must take me by my words and actions. Don't prejudge me.), and the reason I do what is right is not because I'm going to get something out of it, but because I believe in a higher power, a greater being, He is above and beyond what I can comprehend. The reason for my choice was also stated before; I look at myself, and I don't like what I see. I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and wish to live for Him, no longer serving myself, but putting my desires at bay for the good of what He has for me, and for the good of others.
To sum it up: I don't live for myself, be it joy, peace or contentment, but for God. And if I look at my life, and what it was, I am, no matter how I slice it, serving something. It's either going to be God, or it's going to be a form of money or pleasure. I've found the later two to be extremely self and other destructive; I don't want to make that the path for my life.
--------
You think you are, of course, one of God's elite chosen people who go to heaven? If everyone is created by God who controls everything, how could he punish people for doing what he has fated them to do, that is gain knowledge and find all the evidence that he doesn't exist? Suppose you aren't the 'chosen few', you are just a normal person like the rest of us, so I guess according to your fellow Christian tyreth who thinks everyone deserves hell, but God chooses to forgive some people for their sins which he put them on earth to do.
--------
I think myself to be a Christian, and belive I will go to heaven; elite, that is one way to put it. But as I see it, we are all given equal oppertunity, it is our choice: how can I be an elite if all are given the same choice I am?
This will be a stumbling block for tyreth, but I happen to not believe in predestination (that we don't have a choice in where we go). This conflicts with my view of God and His gift of free will to all of us. Also, as you (David) stated above, "Suppose you aren't the 'chosen few'", thats another problem with predestination; how do I really know I'm saved, accepted and forgivin by Him?
So I retire from the fear of not being one of the 'chosen' or as some may put it, those who are damned. I'm sorry I can't agree with him (tyreth) but I believe what I do. I will however keep an open mind; tyreth and David, I wouldn't mind discussing this more fully with either of you... however I don't know if this is the place. Please e-mail me or icq. I realize I haven't given a defense for my unbelief of predestination, but I don't think now is the time or place (besides, I need to go do school work *grin* and my mind is kinda tired; you guys help to make my feable mind think: thankyou ).
My closing comments; I would like to thank those who have spoken truthfully with me for your kindness and honesty. As for the other believers, I would encourage you to 'sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; having a good conscince, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed. (1 Peter 3:15-16)
Sincerely,
-Michael G.
( thr33d@yahoo.com || icq: 51439946 )
Edited by - thr33d on May 15, 2001 5:29:07 PM
>>"Lol, and what I say is to myself as much as it is to
>>anyone else! I don't claim to be good or perfect, nor be
>>unaffected by the choice of doing the wrong thing. The
>>difference I profess is, I wish to do the right, because of
>>my beliefs, for someone outside of myself; this is the
>>base of my faith.
I'm sorry, but I have absolutely no idea what you are trying to express. Are you saying that you want to do "the right thing" so that you can get "Contentment, joy, peace and wholeness."?
----------
Ok, here is where the line is drawn, where human intellegence and wisdom in God clash. What I mean to say by that is, I've made the decision to do what's right, through the aid my God gives me (like I said; this defies logic, and you're going to think me crazy; but you must take me by my words and actions. Don't prejudge me.), and the reason I do what is right is not because I'm going to get something out of it, but because I believe in a higher power, a greater being, He is above and beyond what I can comprehend. The reason for my choice was also stated before; I look at myself, and I don't like what I see. I believe in God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, and wish to live for Him, no longer serving myself, but putting my desires at bay for the good of what He has for me, and for the good of others.
To sum it up: I don't live for myself, be it joy, peace or contentment, but for God. And if I look at my life, and what it was, I am, no matter how I slice it, serving something. It's either going to be God, or it's going to be a form of money or pleasure. I've found the later two to be extremely self and other destructive; I don't want to make that the path for my life.
--------
You think you are, of course, one of God's elite chosen people who go to heaven? If everyone is created by God who controls everything, how could he punish people for doing what he has fated them to do, that is gain knowledge and find all the evidence that he doesn't exist? Suppose you aren't the 'chosen few', you are just a normal person like the rest of us, so I guess according to your fellow Christian tyreth who thinks everyone deserves hell, but God chooses to forgive some people for their sins which he put them on earth to do.
--------
I think myself to be a Christian, and belive I will go to heaven; elite, that is one way to put it. But as I see it, we are all given equal oppertunity, it is our choice: how can I be an elite if all are given the same choice I am?
This will be a stumbling block for tyreth, but I happen to not believe in predestination (that we don't have a choice in where we go). This conflicts with my view of God and His gift of free will to all of us. Also, as you (David) stated above, "Suppose you aren't the 'chosen few'", thats another problem with predestination; how do I really know I'm saved, accepted and forgivin by Him?
So I retire from the fear of not being one of the 'chosen' or as some may put it, those who are damned. I'm sorry I can't agree with him (tyreth) but I believe what I do. I will however keep an open mind; tyreth and David, I wouldn't mind discussing this more fully with either of you... however I don't know if this is the place. Please e-mail me or icq
. I realize I haven't given a defense for my unbelief of predestination, but I don't think now is the time or place (besides, I need to go do school work *grin* and my mind is kinda tired; you guys help to make my feable mind think: thankyou ).My closing comments; I would like to thank those who have spoken truthfully with me for your kindness and honesty. As for the other believers, I would encourage you to 'sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; having a good conscince, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed. (1 Peter 3:15-16)
Sincerely,
-Michael G.
( thr33d@yahoo.com || icq: 51439946 )
Edited by - thr33d on May 15, 2001 5:29:07 PM
256
May 15, 2001 04:38 PM
Someone just started a finite math course or something? What''s all this BS about possibilities n probabilities...
Sure, I think the argument was hilarious, but I felt I had to comment anyways : )
If there is an infinite number of possibilities, than any one possibility has a nil chance of happening, regardless of what that one possibility is (Supreme being vs No supreme being). Yes, you can play with numbers and pretend that your side has a better chance by stating the other side has such an nfinitesimal chance, but the ignorance is when you don''t realize your side has that nfinitesimal chance too : )
G''luck,
-Alamar
Sure, I think the argument was hilarious, but I felt I had to comment anyways : )
If there is an infinite number of possibilities, than any one possibility has a nil chance of happening, regardless of what that one possibility is (Supreme being vs No supreme being). Yes, you can play with numbers and pretend that your side has a better chance by stating the other side has such an nfinitesimal chance, but the ignorance is when you don''t realize your side has that nfinitesimal chance too : )
G''luck,
-Alamar
May 15, 2001 04:54 PM
i am finally gonna reply, ive been gone for a while....
for starters, i will post replies to people comments
HelplessFool, yes i would love to start bashing peoples fish on their cars, but i think enough people hate me already because of my beleifs...
The Kid, not all athiests beleive in evolution, i myself just doubt that there is a god...
Bucket_Head, yes i am damn proud of myself for stirring up this arguement
David20321, Damn straight man... finally someone on my side
wbeougher, yet another ''damn straight''
furby, i love your footnote, to me, it applies to religion.
JesusFreak, i got some questions for ya...
1. what created god?
2. where is god?
3. Can you prove where he is?
4. Can you prove that the bible isnt bs?
5. Can you prove jesus isnt just another man?
6. If the bible isnt true, how would we heard of god?
7. Is there any proof that god interacted with humans?
8. How do you know christianity is the true religion?
9. What makes your religion anymore believeable that others?
10. If humans decided how long a day, and a week was, how did god create the universe in 6 days?
(this next part is confusing, be warned)
JesusFreak, people said there was a god at first. They didnt say that there was none, and then people started believing in god.
So really, you have to prove to me that there is no god, since religious people said there is one.
for example, You say that the sky is falling, you have to prove that to me, i dont have to prove that it is not because i didnt start this crazy idea.
How can anyone tell anyone else what is right and what is wrong?
it is all based on your morals. So how can a god make you believe in his morals for ''ultimate salvation''?
_Buster_ your post is moronic, unless you can rpove the bible is real... not just a fairy tale
Ecko, that makes me feel good :-)
How can a religion disprove any other religions if it cannot even prove that it is right itself?
Mirajg60, hehehehe that would be great!
To everyone else, I know it is free speach, but i hate to see everyone conforming to religions that they cannot prove, nad most likely, there are alot of people that dont know why they believe in god or gods...
There are not enough open minds, and that is the main reason i started this forum... i wanted to stir things up a bit, and open minds...
there is so much more i have to say, but i dont have time...
for starters, i will post replies to people comments
HelplessFool, yes i would love to start bashing peoples fish on their cars, but i think enough people hate me already because of my beleifs...
The Kid, not all athiests beleive in evolution, i myself just doubt that there is a god...
Bucket_Head, yes i am damn proud of myself for stirring up this arguement
David20321, Damn straight man... finally someone on my side
wbeougher, yet another ''damn straight''
furby, i love your footnote, to me, it applies to religion.
JesusFreak, i got some questions for ya...
1. what created god?
2. where is god?
3. Can you prove where he is?
4. Can you prove that the bible isnt bs?
5. Can you prove jesus isnt just another man?
6. If the bible isnt true, how would we heard of god?
7. Is there any proof that god interacted with humans?
8. How do you know christianity is the true religion?
9. What makes your religion anymore believeable that others?
10. If humans decided how long a day, and a week was, how did god create the universe in 6 days?
(this next part is confusing, be warned)
JesusFreak, people said there was a god at first. They didnt say that there was none, and then people started believing in god.
So really, you have to prove to me that there is no god, since religious people said there is one.
for example, You say that the sky is falling, you have to prove that to me, i dont have to prove that it is not because i didnt start this crazy idea.
How can anyone tell anyone else what is right and what is wrong?
it is all based on your morals. So how can a god make you believe in his morals for ''ultimate salvation''?
_Buster_ your post is moronic, unless you can rpove the bible is real... not just a fairy tale
Ecko, that makes me feel good :-)
How can a religion disprove any other religions if it cannot even prove that it is right itself?
Mirajg60, hehehehe that would be great!
To everyone else, I know it is free speach, but i hate to see everyone conforming to religions that they cannot prove, nad most likely, there are alot of people that dont know why they believe in god or gods...
There are not enough open minds, and that is the main reason i started this forum... i wanted to stir things up a bit, and open minds...
there is so much more i have to say, but i dont have time...
--------------------------------------------------------------If it sounds like a good idea, do it. It is much harder to get permission than it is to apologize.
122
May 15, 2001 05:37 PM
Here is the summerized conversation from my evil wicked
murdering athiest point of view;
How do you know the bible is true?
"Because in the early chapters it accuratly predicts
what happends later in the book."
What about evolution?
"Evolution is stupid because it implies that working
like appeared randomly."
In around 10 billions years trillions of stars each had
multiple planets with complex chemical reactions.
If it is a chance of 1/1000000000000 than it is still
bound to happen eventually.
"What? I don''t have to explain myself to you.
You won''t even listen to the hoards of accurate
evidence to explain all of reality that in theory
could settle this entire dispute once and for all.
I have the evidence, I just don''t *feel* like showing it."
So it''s the "You won''t listen" argument, hehe.
So tell me, if God is sooo just why do we get hell without
doing anything wrong? So basically he is saying "Believe
in this book that has 0 evidence to support it because
the book says you will go to hell if you don''t believe it.
How do you know it''s real? The book says so somewhere inside."
It seems to me that God makes alot of mistakes for someone who
is perfect;
1) Claims to be perfect. Everyone will be embarrased at some
point if they say this. Try, I dare ya!
2) Never shows himself or ever takes a minute to prove his own
existance.
3) Relies on people''s ability to accept a wild book that
contradicts *proven fact*, such as the speed of light.
4) Creates a universe packed full of evidence *against* him.
Simply the size of our single galaxy and the fact that it
is all visible goes against the christian bible.
So you ask..
"How do we know the speed of light?"
Because of the time lag between interplanetary communication.
Of course, you would ignore that, so I will put it in
words you can understand: "A book says so somewhere."
If you have no idea what I mean by this, read me earlier post.
murdering athiest point of view;
How do you know the bible is true?
"Because in the early chapters it accuratly predicts
what happends later in the book."
What about evolution?
"Evolution is stupid because it implies that working
like appeared randomly."
In around 10 billions years trillions of stars each had
multiple planets with complex chemical reactions.
If it is a chance of 1/1000000000000 than it is still
bound to happen eventually.
"What? I don''t have to explain myself to you.
You won''t even listen to the hoards of accurate
evidence to explain all of reality that in theory
could settle this entire dispute once and for all.
I have the evidence, I just don''t *feel* like showing it."
So it''s the "You won''t listen" argument, hehe.
So tell me, if God is sooo just why do we get hell without
doing anything wrong? So basically he is saying "Believe
in this book that has 0 evidence to support it because
the book says you will go to hell if you don''t believe it.
How do you know it''s real? The book says so somewhere inside."
It seems to me that God makes alot of mistakes for someone who
is perfect;
1) Claims to be perfect. Everyone will be embarrased at some
point if they say this. Try, I dare ya!
2) Never shows himself or ever takes a minute to prove his own
existance.
3) Relies on people''s ability to accept a wild book that
contradicts *proven fact*, such as the speed of light.
4) Creates a universe packed full of evidence *against* him.
Simply the size of our single galaxy and the fact that it
is all visible goes against the christian bible.
So you ask..
"How do we know the speed of light?"
Because of the time lag between interplanetary communication.
Of course, you would ignore that, so I will put it in
words you can understand: "A book says so somewhere."
If you have no idea what I mean by this, read me earlier post.
122
May 15, 2001 06:09 PM
Alamar, my point exactly.
frapazoid: that is a great summary
RPG: good points
Thr33d = What a Christian should be (even though he''s wrong IMHO
) I personally also feel that the main purpose of life is to help other people I know, but I don''t do it for some higher being that is probably going to send me to hell or wherever.
I *kind of* believe in predestination, the mind is a complicated machine, in a certain setting, given a certain set of inputs, it produces a certain result. This machine is extremely complex and comes in many different settings, thus giving an appearance of unpredictability and sentience. Therefore, if a God exists, it is his fault for putting my brain in particular in a certain setting and with a certain input which causes me to not believe in him, etc. It''s like me writing a computer program and sending it to Codewarrior Hell when it doesn''t produce the desired results.
The thing I don''t like about Christianity is that it says EVERYONE who doesn''t love god without any proof will go to hell. Even though I agree with it in some respects about how people should act(although not for fear of going to hell), I disagree with its exclusion of others and many other aspects of it.
lol if God does exist I''ll be going to hell because of my principles, that would be interesting
Whoever wrote the Bible was a brilliant philosopher, but its like Aesop''s fables, it is a collection of fairy tales that give advice on how to behave.
About tyreth''s argument of why I don''t kill people etc.
Apparently the reason tyreth doesn''t kill people is he or she is afraid of going to hell... I don''t kill people because it is counter-productive, helps nobody, and nobody has done anything to me that would justify me killing them. If somebody killed one of my friends or something equally bad or worse, I would have no qualms about killing them. If you look at animals, they have no religion (at least not that I know of) yet they don''t randomly kill each other, unless in self-defense or if they are hungry.
I don''t steal, because that would set an example for others to steal from me, also I have everything I want, if I was really poor and hungry I probably would steal. Does that answer your question?
Thr33d: you seem pretty smart for someone with a feeble mind.
-David
frapazoid: that is a great summary
RPG: good points
Thr33d = What a Christian should be (even though he''s wrong IMHO
) I personally also feel that the main purpose of life is to help other people I know, but I don''t do it for some higher being that is probably going to send me to hell or wherever.I *kind of* believe in predestination, the mind is a complicated machine, in a certain setting, given a certain set of inputs, it produces a certain result. This machine is extremely complex and comes in many different settings, thus giving an appearance of unpredictability and sentience. Therefore, if a God exists, it is his fault for putting my brain in particular in a certain setting and with a certain input which causes me to not believe in him, etc. It''s like me writing a computer program and sending it to Codewarrior Hell when it doesn''t produce the desired results.
The thing I don''t like about Christianity is that it says EVERYONE who doesn''t love god without any proof will go to hell. Even though I agree with it in some respects about how people should act(although not for fear of going to hell), I disagree with its exclusion of others and many other aspects of it.
lol if God does exist I''ll be going to hell because of my principles, that would be interesting
Whoever wrote the Bible was a brilliant philosopher, but its like Aesop''s fables, it is a collection of fairy tales that give advice on how to behave.
About tyreth''s argument of why I don''t kill people etc.
Apparently the reason tyreth doesn''t kill people is he or she is afraid of going to hell... I don''t kill people because it is counter-productive, helps nobody, and nobody has done anything to me that would justify me killing them. If somebody killed one of my friends or something equally bad or worse, I would have no qualms about killing them. If you look at animals, they have no religion (at least not that I know of) yet they don''t randomly kill each other, unless in self-defense or if they are hungry.
I don''t steal, because that would set an example for others to steal from me, also I have everything I want, if I was really poor and hungry I probably would steal. Does that answer your question?
Thr33d: you seem pretty smart for someone with a feeble mind.
-David
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