You should ask this question in the Java forum. You will get answers from people who have actually used Java since version 1.1. Java only good for little applets? What year in the mid 90''s are you in?

The fanatic is incorruptible: if he kills for an idea, he can just as well get himself killed for one; in either case, tyrant or martyr, he is a monster.
--EM Cioran

Opere Citato

Some people like Java. Some do not.

Java is good for somethings, and for others it is not.

Java has its good side as well as its bad side.


Now if you want to be a cynic you can say all the crap you want about Java just because it has some flaws in it-- like any other language. No one told you to learn or use Java (unless you went to college and they did), and if you have that was probably your choice. So what are you complaining about?

Now I personally like C++, so don''t get me wrong. But I do NOT like stuff like this that comes along slamming a product that none of you could ever make in a million years. Every professional computer language-- including Java-- was designed for a certain purpose. If a language was never meant to be used to make an image editor, why use it for that?

Java has come a long way. So has VB. So has C++.

Then again, so has Honda for that matter.

The M$ flavor of Java supports COM (learned that today), which kicks down the Win32 & Dx doors, along with a bunch of other barriers - but creates a new one, M$ Java (shall we just refer to it as C#?) only runs on Windows, which is the exact sort of limitation that Java was designed to alleviate.

Being both a C/C++ developer and a professional Java developer, I have several opionions about both Java and C++. I think the world is better off with both and they work together nicely if you are willing to take a little time to learn how.

I belive that C/C++ programmers have a lot to learn from the coding standards set down for Java. The included API is becoming more and more popular (for example; take a look at ObjectiveC for Macintosh OS X and Microsofts C#, both come with complete APIs). A tool for execellant documentation generation solely from comments in the source code. Also extremely useful.

It is more than just this. C/C++ programmers can learn more from some of the standards set down. Not all of these are things are documentated. For example, naming conventions are much easier to understand. Working with others code each day I think many can learn from this. I am continuing to as well.

Take a look at the following example:

Win32 API:
HWND hWnd;
HDC hDC;

Java:
Window aboutWindow;
Graphics aboutWindowGraphics;

These variable declarations do almost the same thing and which one is more intuitive? These are standard in naming conventions, not just what I personally like.

More than that though I am working on a Java Swing application that deals with multiple layered graphics with alpha transparency and TCP/IP networking support all in 32-bit. The game is tiled based due to my lack of artisic ability, but it is quite playable and runs on the Mac, Linux, Windows and probably any other platform supporting java as I am NOT using C++.

Out of the box Java applications can be quite slow. It wasn''t designed to be a 3D programming language. But the other things that it can perform easily (networking, imaging, database access, multi-threading) makes it very compelling to put the extra effort in and make it work.

A decent programmer should have no problem doing this. For example, to get my images available quickly I created a class that memorizes a file in RAM and allows me to read large graphical images in a quarter of a second rather than 2 full seconds. It still takes much less RAM than most DirectX games. In addition, Java makes it easy to compress and decompress the data solely in RAM. Very fast and efficient. Do that in an Object Oriented way in C++ in less than a few thousand lines of readable code and I will be impressed.

I can go on forever. I guess the message is: Java is a full featured language. It may not be the next Quake engine, but don''t base it on its usage on the internet. Given half a chance it can really excel for other things too.

Gabriel Harrison
Software Engineer
nyteschayde@yahoo.com

That hWnd vs. Window example is NOT FAIR at all. You''re comparing _APIs_ rather than _programming languages_ in this case. There are APIs out there for interface building in C++ that are just as intuitive as anything available for Java. But, again, this is comparing APIs, not language features.

Having seen this post, I was prompted to try some java out, and so I armed myself with the Java SDK and JCreator. After a little playing, I have to say I was supprised how easy it was (admittedly I usually use C++ ). However does anyone know a good tutorial or reference where I can find out about the specifics of Java (compared to C++, ie a kind of conversion tutorial) ? I found several tutorials...but I don''t need to know about the basics of C++...

quote:

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Original post by merlin9x9

That hWnd vs. Window example is NOT FAIR at all. You''re comparing _APIs_ rather than _programming languages_ in this case. There are APIs out there for interface building in C++ that are just as intuitive as anything available for Java. But, again, this is comparing APIs, not language features.

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of course it is fair. The windowing portion of Java is built right into the language.

And it is all entirely cross platform compatible...

unless of course you use Microsoft''s Visual J++, which breaks the entire idea of java. Gee, something from microsoft which breaks standards? I would have never guessed...

===============================================
Hurry up madness, hurry up disease,
hurry up insanity, hurry up please.
Hooray! I say, for the end of the world.

quote:

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Original post by merlin9x9

That hWnd vs. Window example is NOT FAIR at all. You''re comparing _APIs_ rather than _programming languages_ in this case. There are APIs out there for interface building in C++ that are just as intuitive as anything available for Java. But, again, this is comparing APIs, not language features.

---

of course it is fair. The windowing portion of Java is built right into the language.

And it is all entirely cross platform compatible...

unless of course you use Microsoft''s Visual J++, which breaks the entire idea of java. Gee, something from microsoft which breaks standards? I would have never guessed...

===============================================
Hurry up madness, hurry up disease,
hurry up insanity, hurry up please.
Hooray! I say, for the end of the world.

quote:

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Original post by Mithrandir

Original post by merlin9x9

That hWnd vs. Window example is NOT FAIR at all. You''re comparing _APIs_ rather than _programming languages_ in this case. There are APIs out there for interface building in C++ that are just as intuitive as anything available for Java. But, again, this is comparing APIs, not language features.

---

of course it is fair. The windowing portion of Java is built right into the language.

And it is all entirely cross platform compatible…

unless of course you use Microsoft''s Visual J++, which breaks the entire idea of java. Gee, something from microsoft which breaks standards? I would have never guessed…

===============================================
Hurry up madness, hurry up disease,
hurry up insanity, hurry up please.
Hooray! I say, for the end of the world.

I though java wasn''t a standard to start with…

You know, I never wanted to be a programmer…

Alexandre Moura