i know this probably sounds stupid, but what is java really good for. i''ve only seen internet examples of java(like web site menues, and stupid little games). is it good for applications, and maybe games? i have to admit, the things i read about it seem impressive(like garbage collection), but is it really usefull for "real" programming, and not just internet? i have never even used a java compiler, so i cant say anything about it. will it evolve into something used for everything? or just stay a tool for little things? i mean, if that is what it is now. is there any commercial games or applications coded in it? or am i right about it. i guess what im asking, is it worth learning? i am already fluent in c++, win32, and dx. but another language? does it support dx? and the win32 library? let me know please.

Java is a highly ported GUI abstaction API. You write code using a object framework (kinda like M$''s MFC or Borland''s VCL), and it is sent to the computer in a semi-compiled form called byte code. Instead of interpreting the code completely on-the-fly, there''s a binary spec for the code that everything gets compiled to first. Once it arrives on the host machine, it finishes the job and runs the applet. So it''s much slower than a C program, but considerably faster than early versions of VB.

Nearly every computer system has a VM (java Virtual Machine) that runs java code. Certain things are reasonably quick, and some games have been made with Java. Typically card games & board games, & some others - I''m sure more complicated games are available today (is WildTanget a Java thing?). Java does not support APIs like Win32 or Dx. There might be something with OGL, but I''m not sure (I''m far from a Java expert), but Java does have a some 3D graphics capibilities. The M$ flavor of Java might have extensions to allow you to use M$ APIs - I''ve never used it...

Novell wrote thier NW5 utilities in Java, with very disappointing results. The apps were sooooooo slow they require a 600MHz machine to run them at tolerable speeds. Like Word on a 486/33. At the same time I have seen quick applets as well, but they were usually very simple programs.


If M$ has their way, Java will die. If Sun has thier way, everyone will program in Java for everything. Sun seems to be winning at the moment, since Java is far far away from being dead.

Magmai Kai Holmlor
- The disgruntled & disillusioned

MS'' Java SDK actually has some Direct X classes. I have never used them, so I can''t say anything about how good they are. And I also believe they are using MS'' proprietary way of interfacing to native code, so I don''t think code using these classes will compile under any other SDK.

Alright my lit'' experience here. In university time, we learnt ''bout the Java, and there was a course on software development life cycle. Alright then we were asked to write a library system, it was quite simple application. And it took us four months (a team of five) to produce a slightly acceptable runnin'' program.

I mean, there wasn''t any IDE at all and we used notepad and some stupid helper programs to help in our codin''. Four month, it would have been a much better program if I wrote it under Visual Basic. I think I could simply code a much better program than that one in C/C++(MFC)/VB, by MYSELF.

And there were so many different things like Swing, Java SDK version 1.X ...... and other stuff. Tell you what, I was almost killed by that course. So I UN-learn Java, and now into Microsoft MFC and DirectX world. I mean, Java is slower than anythin'' on the earth. I won''t want to write games using it.

I might be a little biased here but I''ve never used a Java app that was fast. Practically every Java app (as in application) that I''ve used is slow. Take a look at Forte4Java. It takes a minute to load on my PC while MSVC 6.0 loads in 5 seconds.

This performance deficit may be alleviated by using a Java compiler, but that would defeat WORA, woudln''t it? It will become WOCARA (Write Once, Compile Anywhere, Run Anywhere) .

i'm not going to argue about what java is good for, if you take a look at it, you can judge for yourself, but just in case you miss something:

Digital Nerds

Why java can be used for games

but this kind of bothers me:

>I mean, there wasn't any IDE at all and we used notepad and
>some stupid helper programs to help in our codin'. Four month,
>it would have been a much better program if I wrote it under
>Visual Basic. I think I could simply code a much better program
>than that one in C/C++(MFC)/VB, by MYSELF.
>
>And there were so many different things like Swing, Java SDK
>version 1.X ...... and other stuff.

what the hell do you expect? my bet is that you can't even -write- a VB program in notepad, ever tried MFC in notepad? you can't just drop Java because you had to write some anoying program in notepad!

and what "so many things"? do you have any idea how many different libs you can use in C++? and in C/C++ you have a different SDK for every platform you want to code on, and then you have the DX SDK, OpenGL SDK,...

IMHO MFC is just just downright ugly compared to JFC and swing, but i'm sure that if you take a decent look at it you'll find that too

BTW: please don't get me wrong i like C++ better than Java(but speed and templates are the only good reasons i can think of

i admit that pure Java is VERY slow, and Java will never be as fast as C/C++, but there has been a lot of improvement in the area's of garbage collectors and VMs, it's possible to compile to native code, and you can call all the C/C++ stuff you want when you need it (that's what you will be doing in VB anyway if you want something decent)









Edited by - kvh on March 1, 2001 12:59:54 PM

Edited by - kvh on March 1, 2001 1:52:29 PM

In most respects java is superior to C++, however it runs slower and is missing a few features (mostly minor ones though). So if you want to do a game in java you will still need to learn some C++ to get direct x. Other than that it is great. People who dismiss it as being GUI oriented or web oriented are wrong. It is good at those things, but it is so much more. Just don''t expect to be able to do games unless you''re going to mix in some C++ for direct x.

Superior?

Saying something like that is as silly as saying that Coke is better than Pepsi. What''s superior is what somebody likes. And everybody likes different things, but that has nothing to do with things being inherently different. Use whatever works for you.

I think Java is usefull when developing Applets for the Internet or something else for the Internet. For Application Java is in my mind too slow and is in some ways too restricted. For example some object-oriented-techniques like multiple inheritance or Templates are not exists. So some elegant Software-solutions are not possible. I think C++ is the language with the greatest flexibility. It provides programming near the system and contains nevertheless techniques to develop good realistic Softwareprojects. So I think Java is just good for the internet and nothing else at the moment.

Just some stuff I forgot to mention earlier. I think that Java is AWESOME for web based applications. My university is using a system where you can add/drop subjects online. The way it is done is via Java (interface et al).

The only problem with the system is that it chokes on a 300mhz system.

Anyway, Baling, you should have downloaded any of the FREE IDEs for Java. Ever heard of Forte4Java? Java Workshop community Ed? Using notepad is just plain unproductive.

VB sucks as a language. Period. It''s a useful tool, but I wouldn''t really write programs that were meant to last with it. See how MS revamps the language with each version?