thanks guys for being informative.


btw I'm finally going with Zenwalk "Core" (although if someone has any other suggestions.) as my server. Very quick installation, although no tetris :)

A lot of them have different philosophies about packaged software -- Ubuntu and Debian are trying to stay as litigation-free as possible, so things like mp3 encoders and dvd rippers aren't in the default package selection until you check an extra box in the software updater and claim that you aren't an American.

There are also differences in directory structure -- Slackware is more like BSD with its directories and init-scripts, and Ubuntu/Debian are more like what I usually think of when I think of Linux.

There are probably other little religious battles too, like different installer packages (slackware installer, anaconda, the new ubuntu graphical installer) and purpose (tomsrtbt, puppy linux, eMovix). Also, package formats. Debian based distros clearly use deb (and usually the apt utility to get them) and RedHat based distributions use RPM (and the yum utility to get them). Slackware is fucking crazy and uses BSD-style .tgz packages and a BSD-style installer for them.

In an attempt to satisfy big-corporate sons of bitches, like Oluseyi said, a number of distributions are now joining their differences under the "Unified Linux" strategy (and the Linux Standard Base) but the closest thing we have to a standard right now is (unfortunately) RHEL.

Sort of an off topic question, but what exactly is the difference between *nix's shared objects and windows DLL's?

It's kind of pathetic that I'm finally about to get a degree in CS, and I still don't really understand runtime linking of objects.

I don't have the best answer for you, but in Windows DLLs have an import library (.lib) that look just like static libraries that you must link with. In linux you link to the shared object.

I believe when they are loaded into memory and called upon by different applications, there are differences for the default behavior in whether the global memory of the DLL/SO is duplicated or shared.

Also, the way DLL hell is resolved is different. Linux uses soft links to the latest version, Windows used to have applications ship the required DLLs in the same folder as the executable, now they have Side-by-Side (SxS) assemblies.

Quote: Original post by johnnyBravo
thanks guys for being informative.

btw I'm finally going with Zenwalk "Core" (although if someone has any other suggestions.) as my server. Very quick installation, although no tetris :)

What I've always gone for in the Linux world is ease of use, which maintains a striking parallel with improved productivity. Debian-based Ubuntu has this going for it. Not sure if this is as "fun" (read: tedious) as spending X hours compiling your kernel, window manager, and various utilities by hand, and hoping to hell they are compatible with one another, but since I'm using Linux a programmer and not a Linux admin, I appreciate being able to -- what's important to me -- get to programming.

The thing about Gentoo is not only that you get to compile from source, but that you learn while compiling from source.

I guess this quote pretty much says it all:

Quote: Originally posted by CoffeeBuzz @ gentooforums
I think the fact that questions get answered on gentoo more often than perhaps ubuntu can be expressed with this story:

2 people (Bob and his girlfriend Claire) are completely new to Linux. Claire decides shes UBER l33T!?!!111 and decides to install Gentoo. Bob, being an experienced windows user decides to play it safe in GUI-land with ubuntu.

They sit down at the same time and begin installing. An hour later Bob has ubuntu up and running after twidling through a few GUI menus and downloading some of these “binaries” whatever they are. His system complete, he goes to visit Claire. When he gets there Claire is stuck at a prompt with a blinking cursor still figuring out what a “chrooted environement” is.

Bob goes home, comes back the next morning and whoa, Claire is on the fritz. Her hair is a tangled mess, her eyes bloodshot, circular stains of dried coffee are littered around her desk - reminders of the agonizingly slow hours spent starring at her buzzing monitor typing endless streams of commands, reading countless howto’s, a couple handbooks and 2 50-page forum threads. She twitches a little as she watches compiling code fly by wondering, “For the love of all things sweet and merciful, when lord when!”. Bob, underestimating the level of frustration and tension dares ask, “Morning Claire! How’s the install goin’?” after which he quickly ducks as an airborne shoe just barely misses his face from point-blank. He quietly slinks out.

Next day Bob runs into a problem… he’s got an iPod. He plugs it in, but has never used dmesg or mount, so he gets stuck. Gtkpod keeps tossing “Error: iTunesDB not found” so he visits Claire, whom by the way is in a much better mood. She’s only slightly dismayed because OpenOffice is still givin’er from the previous day (the first time she got half way through but the build broke because she didn’t have the xml2 use flag set, which by the way was VERY annoying). Bob asks, “Hey, I plug in my iPod but I can’t mo… ” and before he even finished his sentance Claire ssh’d into his computer, wrote a udev rule, added an fstab line and configured ivman to automount it.

Bob simply stands there absolutely dumbfounded. Claire smiles and says, “Lets get married,” and at that exact moment when time seems to stop as the two new-found linux lovers stare deep into each others eyes …
… open office finishes compiling.

And they live happily ever after.

Quote: Original post by BBB

Quote: Original post by Ravuya
...
Slackware is fucking crazy and uses BSD-style .tgz packages and a BSD-style installer for them.
...

Haha I second that. But besides its package-"management" system and two other things its a great distro and one of the most popular (I've also heard that its the oldest active distro, dunno if its true).

it's one of the originals and once again my favorite. [grin]

Quote: Original post by BBB
Gentoo:
Even if Portage/Emerge might be great as well as Gentoo's community I have to agree that Gentoo is mostly a waste of time, both when it comes to installation of software and the distro itself. I've read that some of my countrymen in the northern parts have gotten tired of all compiling and started a binary repos, similar to Debian's. Don't got any link though.

i don't like the idea of compiling everything. there are almost no packages that will show a speed benefit from compiling for your specific system. many people use gentoo just for the package management sytem alone.

Quote: Original post by Oluseyi
..., do you think they would sit around recompiling distro and apps for every server?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhaahahahahaahAHAHAhAhahahaaha....... no.

Quote: Original post by BBB
... Linux Devs need to cut down on their selfishness and work on binary compability and overall standards. Also both *nix and Windows has issues with .so/.dll's.

amen, brother.

One of these days I'm going to do my own Linux from scratch. Gentoo helped me learn some of the ins and outs of the Unix world, as did my class in Unix Systems Programming, but I think rolling your own linux is probably the best way to really learn the nuts and bolts.

The task looks daunting....but hey, I didn't choose my handle for nothing.

Quote: Original post by Boder
I don't have the best answer for you, but in Windows DLLs have an import library (.lib) that look just like static libraries that you must link with. In linux you link to the shared object.

Only if you implicitly link do you need to link to the .lib If you use LoadLibrary and GetProcAddress you just need the dll and the names of the functions you want to get from the dll. These 2 functions are the windows version of dlopen and dlsym. Not that this has much to do with the topic, just wanted to futher explain that.

Quote: Original post by Dauntless
One of these days I'm going to do my own Linux from scratch. Gentoo helped me learn some of the ins and outs of the Unix world, as did my class in Unix Systems Programming, but I think rolling your own linux is probably the best way to really learn the nuts and bolts.

The task looks daunting....but hey, I didn't choose my handle for nothing.

minux is another great way to learn a few things about the inner workings of a basic linux system. i learned quite a bit in only a few minutes. just slap it on a floppy and boot it or load the disk image directly with vmware server. vmware server is free and kicks some serious ass.

i just finally started looking at linux from scratch earlier today. i might give it a try under a linux dist (possibly debian) installed in vmware in the next few days or so.