When i thought about this idea, it did remind me of Stargate and traditional Spirits, so i'm just going to try and lay it out here..

In eastern philosophies they talk about Chi, Chi being the lifeforce of a human being. Now certain hangups, emotional baggage, injuries, can block this energy and disrupt its flow, leading to weakness, disease, trauma, etc. Particular individuals with truely clear and aligned Chi are generally uncommon, and can be rare in todays age.

Now lets say the Indwelling needs to feed on the Chi energy of a host to survive and grow. He could bond with a good host and take care and nurture them in order to grow symbiotically in the long run. A Evil Indwelling on the other hand, may want to heap on MORE emotional damage, weakening the hosts personality to the point where he can suppress its concious mind and take control to immediate benefits. The host may rebel however by taking drugs (from a therapist or a dealer), doing meditation, or counselling to cope with the emotional damage and force you out. Succeeding of course has a drawback, since the hosts energy at that point would be completely blocked and have a finite supply. It would only be a matter of time before the host would die and be untendable for the Indwelling and he'd have to leave.

An Indwelling would probably have a limited supply of energy of his own with which to manipulate or coerce the host to cooperate with him, so if he resists successfully for a time the Indwelling wouldn't have the strength to continue to harrass or converse with him and leave.

Both approaches have their benefits. If the player wants to nuture a good Host, he'll first have to adjust himself to the hosts personality, such as him having an insatiable lust for chocolate, liking to get drunk, or a deathly fear of water. The player could curb these things, but trying to force him to not do something he wants or vice versa to could end up making him rebel, or reveal or create deeper trauma's.

But lets say the player has a good host with really clear Chi (the best to grow with), and protects and nurtures him. If he fails at a particular task or to protect him, the Host may suffer Emotional Trauma, which reduces his Chi, and creates another problem for the Indwelling to have to work around. In this way the player can fail and have concequences that can effect him directly, if only for a time. If the player fails continuously than his host won't have much energy for him to grow with and will be difficult to manage through all his Emotional Scarring, which may encourage the player to find a new host, wait for the next generation, stick it out and try and clear it up, or simply suppress his mind and use him for his own ends.

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Original post by Gyrthok When i thought about this idea, it did remind me of Stargate and traditional Spirits, so i'm just going to try and lay it out here..

Haha, I've only started watching Stargate (I'm WAAAAY behind on my sci-fi shows)! Is this that whole thing with the Ori?

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In eastern philosophies they talk about Chi, Chi being the lifeforce of a human being. Now certain hangups, emotional baggage, injuries, can block this energy and disrupt its flow, leading to weakness, disease, trauma, etc. Particular individuals with truely clear and aligned Chi are generally uncommon, and can be rare in todays age.

Now that's very interesting. I'd been looking for a way of developing personality traits as if they were tech tree components, so that events (traumatic, cathartic, etc.) gave rise to abilities in a process similar to traditional RPG leveling. This concept of chi energy sounds interesting because it could represent flow of lifeforce to those nodes. Maybe when the flow is blocked, the ability would wither and become inaccessible?

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Now lets say the Indwelling needs to feed on the Chi energy of a host to survive and grow. He could bond with a good host and take care and nurture them in order to grow symbiotically in the long run. A Evil Indwelling on the other hand, may want to heap on MORE emotional damage, weakening the hosts personality to the point where he can suppress its concious mind and take control to immediate benefits. The host may rebel however by taking drugs (from a therapist or a dealer), doing meditation, or counselling to cope with the emotional damage and force you out. Succeeding of course has a drawback, since the hosts energy at that point would be completely blocked and have a finite supply. It would only be a matter of time before the host would die and be untendable for the Indwelling and he'd have to leave.

I very much like this idea, but can you imagine a way that YOU could easily relate to it? How could you represent this sort of thing? As a symbolic diagram (like a glowing golden labyrinth?)? As some sort of 3D landscape of energy networks?

Moreover, what would you represent blocks as? Hey, maybe events the NPC found traumatic might be recorded to the game and projected only a sphere, playing over and over again to represent the repetitive nature of unshakeable memories?

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An Indwelling would probably have a limited supply of energy of his own with which to manipulate or coerce the host to cooperate with him, so if he resists successfully for a time the Indwelling wouldn't have the strength to continue to harrass or converse with him and leave.

A couple of things here:

-I think limited resources are a good way of creating strategies. The idea that good or evil Indwellings gain energy from different events would make for many different types of strategies, as well.

-It sounds like you could get trapped inside a poor host if you don't play well, right up until that host dies and frees you.

-I'm wondering if there should be a consequence to driving a host into the ground and not having another? For instance, maybe you lose any progress you've made in leveling over time?

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Both approaches have their benefits. If the player wants to nuture a good Host, he'll first have to adjust himself to the hosts personality, such as him having an insatiable lust for chocolate, liking to get drunk, or a deathly fear of water. The player could curb these things, but trying to force him to not do something he wants or vice versa to could end up making him rebel, or reveal or create deeper trauma's.

I think this is such a cool aspect, but it implies that you spend in control and out of control. Do you have any ideas for what should trigger being out of control? As a spirit, you don't sleep (tho' I suppose you could).

Does it make sense that in order to level up or repair yourself, you have to go dormant (with time passing quickly)?

How about this idea, as well: Maybe you choose to leave the host for a time (at the host's request) periodically. (Maybe not, but I was thinking that Indwellings could be bound to very special and rare items, and could survive without a host in them for a time).

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If the player fails continuously than his host won't have much energy for him to grow with and will be difficult to manage through all his Emotional Scarring, which may encourage the player to find a new host, wait for the next generation, stick it out and try and clear it up, or simply suppress his mind and use him for his own ends.

I think this sounds like such a fascinating direction to take this, but the real challenge is in how to visually represent it (in a way people can relate to).

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Original post by RobotechII I think it might be an interesting surprise for a player to realize what they are for the first time when the first host died.

That's cool, especially because it would eliminate death and offer a very interesting surprise to the player.

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Original post by Wavinator I was thinking along the lines of after each host discarded the Indwelling "ages." And after so many hosts the Indwelling has a possibility of permanent death. Maybe on the last couple of transfers inform the player that the Indwelling had great difficulty moving to a new host.

You could do this if you wanted to bring closure to the game. I'll think about it. Initially I'm worried about putting pressure on the player like this, especially before they know what's what in the game world. Part of the story I'm thinking about says that Indwellings can't die, but they can be "de-leveled" into near oblivion and take ages to coalesce again. (Meanwhile, any Indwellings oppsoed to them run free affecting the human race)

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Although I like the idea about being able to level more/easier if the host you inhabit is already more aligned with the Indwellings personality. I believe that the player would become more attached to these more attuned hosts since it would be easier to level.

Great! Just a quick question about this: I'm trying to flesh out gameplay involving building a bloodline/dynasty. If there was a whole strategic aspect to offspring (in terms of personality, character attributes, flaws and quirks) that would make hosts more and more powerful. Do you think this idea in general would make you more attached to the idea of finding the right host?

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Original post by Wavinator Quote: Although I like the idea about being able to level more/easier if the host you inhabit is already more aligned with the Indwellings personality. I believe that the player would become more attached to these more attuned hosts since it would be easier to level. Great! Just a quick question about this: I'm trying to flesh out gameplay involving building a bloodline/dynasty. If there was a whole strategic aspect to offspring (in terms of personality, character attributes, flaws and quirks) that would make hosts more and more powerful. Do you think this idea in general would make you more attached to the idea of finding the right host?

If every host have several children, this can help choosing the heir.

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That's cool, especially because it would eliminate death and offer a very interesting surprise to the player.

Stargate is actually going into their 8th season i think, (or is it the 9th?). The Guaould (or however its spelled) are back in the earlier seasons. I think someone may have mentioned it about them being parasites that can live symbiotically with their host, or simply suppress their minds, and have alot of collective knowledge that they've gained from each host.

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Now that's very interesting. I'd been looking for a way of developing personality traits as if they were tech tree components, so that events (traumatic, cathartic, etc.) gave rise to abilities in a process similar to traditional RPG leveling. This concept of chi energy sounds interesting because it could represent flow of lifeforce to those nodes. Maybe when the flow is blocked, the ability would wither and become inaccessible?

It would make alot of sense that such abilities would be lost or wither as the energy becomes blocked.

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I very much like this idea, but can you imagine a way that YOU could easily relate to it? How could you represent this sort of thing? As a symbolic diagram (like a glowing golden labyrinth?)? As some sort of 3D landscape of energy networks? Moreover, what would you represent blocks as? Hey, maybe events the NPC found traumatic might be recorded to the game and projected only a sphere, playing over and over again to represent the repetitive nature of unshakeable memories?

Fortunetly eastern philosophies also have the concept of Chakra's (which are points of energy along the body that represent certain aspects of human physiology, and are keypoints of energy). The more common, or major ones are located horrizontally along the spine, a total of 7 methinks. So if you were going to represent a traumatic event, you could have the 7 chakra's glow blue along the spine, and have a projected orb playing a recording of the event over and over on one chakra that appears dark which would show which chakra is blocked (and if its 3rd person this would be relatively easy on the player). If you need more than 7 points there are alot of other less central spots you can use.

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-I think limited resources are a good way of creating strategies. The idea that good or evil Indwellings gain energy from different events would make for many different types of strategies, as well. -It sounds like you could get trapped inside a poor host if you don't play well, right up until that host dies and frees you. -I'm wondering if there should be a consequence to driving a host into the ground and not having another? For instance, maybe you lose any progress you've made in leveling over time?

I wouldn't say you could be trapped in a poor host (though you could make it happen), more that the Indwelling would be forced out of the host because he wouldn't have the energy to maintain his presence.

Seeing as an indwelling needs energy to survive and grow, you could make this a linear growth (merely getting more and more power), so if he fails or loses his host by being kicked out or death it could drain alot of his energy (thus setting him back).

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I think this is such a cool aspect, but it implies that you spend in control and out of control. Do you have any ideas for what should trigger being out of control? As a spirit, you don't sleep (tho' I suppose you could). Does it make sense that in order to level up or repair yourself, you have to go dormant (with time passing quickly)? How about this idea, as well: Maybe you choose to leave the host for a time (at the host's request) periodically. (Maybe not, but I was thinking that Indwellings could be bound to very special and rare items, and could survive without a host in them for a time).

Traditional spirits don't require rest in the same way as living folk do, but they do become fatigued (we ourselves do, and the dead are merely an extension of ourselves), though this also depends on how powerful the spirit is, the more powerful being able to stay active for longer. Spirits though simply don't have to exert themselves in order to rest, so its possible that the indwelling could "rest" in the hosts subconcious mind, there he could watch everything that goes on and act if he really has to while he's resting.

The objects or jewels of the indwelling could serve as a vessel for the indwelling to rest in. So potentially, if an indwelling doesn't have a host, wandering around could slowly but continuously drain the energy he's collected, so if he stays outside a host to long he'll be rendered inert. Having the jewel could serve as a safe place he can rest so he won't lose any energy while not in a host.

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Original post by Wavinator You could do this if you wanted to bring closure to the game. I'll think about it. Initially I'm worried about putting pressure on the player like this, especially before they know what's what in the game world. Part of the story I'm thinking about says that Indwellings can't die, but they can be "de-leveled" into near oblivion and take ages to coalesce again. (Meanwhile, any Indwellings oppsoed to them run free affecting the human race)

That sounds pretty cool. It's about the same idea minus the permanent death.

BTW what kind of timescale will your game have? Is the average game going to last thousands of years, millions of years or billions of years (game years that is)?

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Original post by Wavinator Great! Just a quick question about this: I'm trying to flesh out gameplay involving building a bloodline/dynasty. If there was a whole strategic aspect to offspring (in terms of personality, character attributes, flaws and quirks) that would make hosts more and more powerful. Do you think this idea in general would make you more attached to the idea of finding the right host?

I think anything that would make my player more powerful (anything inside certain bounds of the role I've decided to play anyway) would be something I would search out. Including finding a compatible host.

P.S. I enjoy your journal posts. Best of luck with Straylight.

The Anime series Yu-Gi-Oh has spirit creatures who live in items.

Basically, there are several ancient egyptian items called the Millenium Items that appear in the series. They all have some sort of magic power to them but some also house Spirits.

One is the Millenium Puzzle which is what the shows hero Yugi owns. Its a necklace shaped like a pyramid (its made of puzzle pieces so one has to put it together before they can own it). It houses the spirit of some ancient Pharoah who is called the King of Games. He talks to Yugi, gives him advice, and has an uncanny ability to win any game he plays, in the manga he also can deal out imaginative punishment to the villains who lose against him. He seems to gain "power" from the bond he shares with Yugi and Yugi's friends.


Another is the Millenium Ring and that one houses an evil spirit. He's one of the cooler recurring villains because this spirit wants to track down and own all the items so he can gain Ultimate Power. However, he needs a human body to actually move around and has chosen a boy named Bakura to be his Host. Bakura is a nice and likable good guy but when the Ring finds it's way back to him it posseses his mind and he becomes possibly the coolest and most manipulative bad guys in the series. Yugi and friends always manage to beat him but the Ring always manages to find its way back to Bakura.

The ring itself has the power to locate the other Millenium items, and the possesed Bakura was able to do things like listen in on private radio transmissions, break the spells cast by other items, and trapped other peoples souls into tiny figurines (which he used to play in a dungeons and dragons game).


Another thing, the Millenium Puzzle has a sort of Spirirual Inside that looks like a huge and confusing maze with locked doors, traps, and secrets hidden inside. The Pharoah spirit sometimes recedes into the puzzle and explores its inside trying to find out who he is. Others have visited it as well (through out of body experiences) and the possesed Bakura even explored it for a bit though I don't know what became of that.


Anyway, a few ideas that can be had from this:

1. The indwellings "artifact" might have a sort of mental maze inside that is gradually unlocked as they fulfill some task in the real world. Unlocking different parts of the maze unlocks new abilities or insight into what their purpose is. The indwelling can then explore the maze to find the newly accesed secrets, or there may be something else for them to do inside (a TV and VCR that can be used to play back cut scenes or important events you encountered, a radio that lets you tune into the thoughts of other people, a bed with an alarm clock so you can sleep for a generation or two, or even a hot tub you can use to just relax)It may even be possible for Indwellings to "hack" into another Indwellings maze to either spy, commit sabotage, or perhaps negotiate.

2. Some humans might fight for the opportunity to pair with an indwelling, either because they think they could personally benefit or for the honor of serving the indwelling.

3. It may be possible to completly possess people but if you do, then as soon as you release control they may throw the Indwelling's artifact away. This means you don't have as much time to explore your maze to unlock secrets.

4. The artifacts may even have special abilities that humans may try to make use of. For example, one item may be a "magic mirror" used to spy on events that take place elsewhere. A person may want the mirror to spy on an enemy, but the indwelling has to agree to make the mirror work. Or this mirror might just show random images by itself, spy for short distances with the indwellings "permission" but if the indwelling and host merge then the mirror can see into peoples hearts, communicate telepathically or some even better stuff.

heh, maybe even have a "magic lamp" like item where the indwelling has a choice of granting a wish, denying a wish, granting it in a sneaky way... or trying to get your new "Master" to wish for the things you want.

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Original post by RobotechII BTW what kind of timescale will your game have? Is the average game going to last thousands of years, millions of years or billions of years (game years that is)?

I'm trying to fuse RPG with Civilization-style scope, so this is hard to answer. I'm imagining that it's real-time (1:1) but with the ability to skip forward in small or huge increments. If you lock yourself in a vault in cryogenic stasis for a couple of millenia, what I hope will happen (if I can get the mechanics and art issues figured out) is that the game world goes through a few "rise and fall of empires" cycles, essentially randomizing the world.

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Original post by Wavinator P.S. I enjoy your journal posts. Best of luck with Straylight.

Thanks! [smile]

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Original post by The Shadow Nose The Anime series Yu-Gi-Oh has spirit creatures who live in items.

Thanks for the info, that series is totally foreign to me. Very cool ideas.

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1. The indwellings "artifact" might have a sort of mental maze inside that is gradually unlocked as they fulfill some task in the real world. Unlocking different parts of the maze unlocks new abilities or insight into what their purpose is. The indwelling can then explore the maze to find the newly accesed secrets, or there may be something else for them to do inside (a TV and VCR that can be used to play back cut scenes or important events you encountered, a radio that lets you tune into the thoughts of other people, a bed with an alarm clock so you can sleep for a generation or two, or even a hot tub you can use to just relax)It may even be possible for Indwellings to "hack" into another Indwellings maze to either spy, commit sabotage, or perhaps negotiate.

Whoa! That's weird! [cool] It has the very strange advantage of making the abstract concrete. For some reason it makes me think of 2001 and the representation of places / rooms inside of the Monolith. There's potential with this idea, I'll have to think about it, especially getting into other Indwellings' mazes/places.

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2. Some humans might fight for the opportunity to pair with an indwelling, either because they think they could personally benefit or for the honor of serving the indwelling.

Yes, I'm even thinking (for story) that this has occurred throughout history, and could be blended with myths and the histories of ancient cultures.

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3. It may be possible to completly possess people but if you do, then as soon as you release control they may throw the Indwelling's artifact away. This means you don't have as much time to explore your maze to unlock secrets.

This implies that you'd end up sitting dormant for a certain time, waiting to be picked up by the next sucker/host. Interesting. If you could sit for long enough, a lot might change.

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4. The artifacts may even have special abilities that humans may try to make use of.

Okay, this holds some interesting possibilities as well, with a threat to your host (and thus you) being that you don't want to advertise your abilities TOO much or people will come snooping. If they know about Indwellings, then they may try to compel you or unlock your secrets. If they're an enemy Indwelling, they may come to kill your host and siphon your power.

Great possibilities! This definitely needs more development.

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Original post by Wavinator Quote: 1. The indwellings "artifact" might have a sort of mental maze inside that is gradually unlocked as they fulfill some task in the real world. Unlocking different parts of the maze unlocks new abilities or insight into what their purpose is. The indwelling can then explore the maze to find the newly accesed secrets, or there may be something else for them to do inside (a TV and VCR that can be used to play back cut scenes or important events you encountered, a radio that lets you tune into the thoughts of other people, a bed with an alarm clock so you can sleep for a generation or two, or even a hot tub you can use to just relax)It may even be possible for Indwellings to "hack" into another Indwellings maze to either spy, commit sabotage, or perhaps negotiate. Whoa! That's weird! [cool] It has the very strange advantage of making the abstract concrete. For some reason it makes me think of 2001 and the representation of places / rooms inside of the Monolith. There's potential with this idea, I'll have to think about it, especially getting into other Indwellings' mazes/places.

Another idea from they Yu-gi-oh series, in one of the mangas one person had an item called the Millenium Key that allowed him to enter the "Room of a persons soul". The room was a representation of their mind that he could look around in and manipulate.

So, he could enter a persons mind, and see journals and photos of that persons past, books containing their knowlege, and some dusty trunks containing things they had forgotten. He could also "rearrange" the items in their soul to turn them into mind slaves.

So, what if the indwelling, in addition to being able to speak with their host and enter the maze within their own artifact, suppose they could enter into the soul of their host and change things inside.

The human soul could be represented as a spaceship with various crewmwmbers (An engeineering room with technitians who repair the body and keep bodily functions working, a security division that deals with invading germs and psychic attacks, etc) while the indwelling is pretty much alone in their maze or whatever. When a host picks up the indwellings artifact, it creates a "link" that lets the indwelling pass into their soul and explore that.

The indwelling can then do things, to help or hinder the person they entered.
For example:

1. Possesing people- break into their "command room" and take over and/or reprogramm the controls.

2. Heal them from injury- enter into their soul and repair damaged systems. Could be simplified into a minigame or consist of you entering "engineering" and instructing the representations of the bodies healing system on what to do. It may even be possible to make a host immortal or give them "youth" by properly instructing the immune system on how to work.

3. Augment their capabilities- Enter into their soul and perform engineering feats to boost their strength, intellegence, or remove unwanted fears or phobias. Perhaps you could store certain energies in your artifact and then channel that into your host much like what you would do on a real spaceship.

4. Spying, exploring, or implanting- Enter their memory and examine "books" or some other form of memory representation. Either use it to find their secrets, unlock forgotten secrets in their past that they can now use, or you could give them false memories. Perhaps even change their loyalties so that they obey you more.

5. Defend them against psychic attack- perhaps have other indwellings or some sort of psychic monsters enter into their soul that cause damage. The bodies defences might be able to defend against it to a certain extent but with your help and instructions you can greatly increase the odds of fighting them off, or minimising damage.

6. Access innerspace- once you merge with your host enough, you take them with you into their own "soul" and let them see what it is like. This would theoretically give them immortality since they could now repair themselves from the inside and boost their own capabilities as never before.


I suppose the "soul" of the host could consist of the "ship" and its "crew". Security systems could be there to restrict your access if you are not wanted. By gaining the hosts confidence, they may allow you access to their soul and let you heal or augment them. Or you could try forcably attacking their internal security in order to posess them.


Anyway, I think the analogy of a persons soul being a ship would be a good one. Since you probably would already have a system for making starships in your game, hopefully it shouldn't be too much work to adapt the gameplay of running a ship with running a host. Though, you might need a way to make it obvious which one the player is doing at a given time.