Think of it this way. You get to RULE the galaxy. Be the supreme being. That and the graphics are easier to manage:-D And it's not based on the twitch factor. It's pure strategy. One of the real things I want to do is make a smart AI (yes I know I am setting myself up for dissapointment because I'll miss a billion possibilities but I have a goal and a lot of years to work on it. LOL) I hate when you make ridicously good offers to AI and they still turn it down..bunch of communists.. (no offence to actual communists, it's just one of those expressions I use)

It's so boring sitting there while your opponent takes his sweet time. It's also boring thinking forever about what moves to make. I like games that allow you to balance strategy and speed (a fast mediocre decision can compete with a slow good decision), or in other words RTS.

[Edited by - Daniel Miller on July 7, 2005 12:53:42 PM]

yeah, well I would like to be able to make this game. And right now RTS is out of the question. That and you just can't get the depth of gameplay in RTS that you can in TBS. Mainly due to time constraints. :-D That and diplomacy in RTS is normally a joke unless your doing multiplayer. I just like interaction. Don't get me wrong, no one loves C&C more than me. I just appreciate the TBS too. :-D

Quote:

Original post by Charles256 Hmm. Another random thought... Shouldn't there be some type of recap whenever you load a saved game? Something like you've conquered htese planets, made these treaties.. Something like that. Becaues hplus made a really good point about it taking a while to get back into saved games because sometimes you don't remember what on earth was going on. I've had the same problem with TBS if I can't finish them in one sitting... Hmm... :: scratches at his chin while pondering.:: :-D

That's not a bad idea, maybe a sort of major events recap that goes chronologically. Could be useful if you're like me and have to drop everything for a good couple weeks for school work, etc.

--Ter'Lenth

I'd argue that RTS games have a different type of depth than TBS games. While TBS games have the depth tons of tons stats, diplomacy, etc., RTS games have the depth that real-time brings: multitasking, throwing your opponent off by attacking from several places, balancing micro control with macro control, generally spreading your clicks around effectively, etc. Watch a proffesional Broodwar match and tell me there isn't a shitload of strategy going on there! :P

Plus, while this is obviously an opinion, it's more fun to be in a non-stop intense battle then it is slowly deciding your moves.

While I agree that attacking from multiple angles and defending in RTS is pretty darn demanding. (I've been there,trust me. ) It's also challenging defending against a two front war from two different enemies, you still have to allocate your ships and what not in all fairness. :-D I like both TBS and RTS so I won't argue too strong for one over hte ohter. Just right now I think TBS would be easier to make. :-D

I'd worry about the other design elements first, but keep this in mind while you are making the game (and particularly the AI).

Civilization took forever to plot AI routes once the full map was opened which led me to play strictly defensively (and opportunistically) until the end of the game when I had very mobile units that could take out the opposition in a few turns.

Heroes of Might and Magic is a good model of how to do a TBS without having a really long game but still allowing a build-up of forces and "tech". Civilization is a study in things that could be improved (particularly in the endgame when the map fills out and the player controls a ton of various forces.

Some quick tips:

1. Stack units so that there are fewer forces total in view on the map. Allow these to be "unstacked" as the player wishes, but don't make every unit separate by default for your AI.

2. Give the choice to the player by allowing them to adjust the base speed of tech research used by both their towns and NPC towns.

3. Give the choice to the player again by allowing them to customize the size of the map and the number of AI opponents.

10-20 hours seems like a good area, but you should probably also watch out for pacing. In Master of Magic it's pretty easy to sit around on a nice little continent until you max out the "tech tree", then explode out and conquor all sorts of things for the next 3/4ths of the game.

Another issue to think of is whether you want it to be single-player or multi-player. Multi-player RTS games should ideally be shorter, something you can play in an afternoon or two with a couple friends.

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Original post by Daniel Miller It's so boring sitting there while your opponent takes his sweet time. It's also boring thinking forever about what moves to make.

You my friend have obviously never suffered from the seriously debilitating syndrome known as JOMT! JOMT victims know they have to go to work the next day, know they have finals due and should be studying, know that they're probably hours away from death because their electrolyte levels have plummeted due to near starvation... but they can't resist Just One More Turn! [grin]

Civ 3 is an example of a game that gives you JOMT syndrome badly. I've gone to sleep thinking about the damnable Mongol artillery to my south, the double-dealing French giving nuclear technology to the English, and how on earth I'm going to save my Egyptian allies who are down to just a handful of cities on that lonely island I'll never be able to reach in time. As much as I love Starcraft and Total Annihilation, I've never had an experience in an RTS that has so much epic strategy.

A question: Are you trying to appeal to the "beer & pretzels" strategy gamer, or to the hardcore gamer. I'm more the latter, and I love a game that will last for weeks, not hours, if there is lots of sandbox play, diplomacy, espionage and fleet engagements. (Uh, maybe I'mma "left-winger"???? I usually think I'm more centrist, but whatever[lol])

OTOH, one of our members, Diodor, has an economic TBS called Orbital Trader that I find amazingly addictive and fun, and it can be completed in a few hours of play. But I think if you have lots of options each turn and juicy strategic details (and you're not worried about multiplayer) you might want to simply set no time limit, but instead set options for aggression, tech tree research speed, and travel time.

You can also do what MOO and Civ do, which is have advanced or prewarp settings, which start you off with a handful of colonies, or so far down the tech ladder you've got to discover space travel.

(And left-winger or not, I always welcome another space strategy game![grin])