One thing I have noticed alot on Online Games is, if you killed a character that was good, you could get arrested, go to court, possibly get sentenced to jail. A very common aspect in games to keep PKing from getting out of hand. What about the townspeople? I killed a peasant in an online game, nothing happened. Nobody tried to arrest me. If you want games to be role played alot, you gotta have the same consequences for doing stuff to NPCs like if you do with PCs. And, a note which is off-topic, I think NPCs have a lot more stuff to do than to stand next to Hallabolla Restaurant saying "Welcome! I believe the chicken here is excellent!" Well, anyone feel the same as I do about these two subjectS?

LOLOL... ROFL... LMFAO... Guess my stance... "NPC''S ARE PEOPLE TOO!"

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

>> What about the townspeople? I killed a peasant in an online game, nothing happened. Nobody tried to arrest me. >>

Personally I only play EverQuest at the moment and it implements a faction system where your standing with the guards and citizens will rise and fall as you kill people. For instance, if you have killed many guards or farmers in the woods, the guards will start attacking you as soon as they see you.

Actually, it would seem more realistic if it was ok to kill peasants etc. in fantasy games since that was how things worked in mediaevil times. No guard would attack a noble for killing some simple peasants. In feudal times the peasants were the property of the owner of the land where they lived.

Henry

Hmmmm... I don''t know if you can give out the punishment we would normally associate with murder for killing an NPC, seeing that the NPC will just respawn in three minutes anyway. I actually haven''t played any online RPGs myself, but I''ve seen my friend wander through EverQuest once or twice. I don''t know why it''s amusing to him to kill an NPC, stand behind his body for three minutes, and then kill him again when he respawns. I mean, you''d end up with a sentence like this:

Judge: "Lynck the Cold-Hearted, you have been found guilty of the heinous crime of killing Jack nine times, effectively stealing twenty-seven minutes of his life. For this you are ordered to pay him the one and a half coppers he would otherwise have earned in that time."

If you''re going to punish killing an NPC harshly, the killing should have more permanent consequences, I think. Of course the problem with this is that it would take about two days before bloodthirsty players have systematically eliminated every NPC in your game! Unless you have very large towns... and NPCs aren''t just defenseless collections of polygons that offer you their opinion of the restaurant''s chicken even as you''re disemboweling them. A player who has just started the game shouldn''t be able to slaughter NPCs with such ease... they should stand up for themselves, damnit! You''d have to make player death permanent as well. Then get rid of all this trial and sentencing business. If you kill an NPC, the guards kill your character and you''re SOL... unless you manage to escape the town before they can find you.

There are so many things I would love to create in an online RPG, but there are just three small problems: 1.) I can never quite get all the ideas to reconcile with each other. There''s always something that doesn''t seem to fit just right. 2.) I have no idea how to implement any of it! Network code and AI are two things I know next to nothing about. <sigh> Oh well... someday. 3.) Is it just me, or does it seem that there are few players out there interested in making the game experience as immersive as possible, relative to the large number of people who will never talk in character, never try to accomplish anything on their own, and always go out of their way to use the ''hacks'' that inevitably arise for any game?

I can see this post degenerating into pointlessness before my very eyes. So that''s enough out of me.

-Ironblayde
 Aeon Software

The following sentence is true.
The preceding sentence is false.

quote: Original post by Ironblayde

3.) Is it just me, or does it seem that there are few players out there interested in making the game experience as immersive as possible, relative to the large number of people who will never talk in character, never try to accomplish anything on their own, and always go out of their way to use the ''hacks'' that inevitably arise for any game?

Unfortunately, its not just you. I do a lot of my research by ''borrowing'' ideas I find on the various MUDs scattered over the net, and to do so, I entrench a character in them for quite a long period of time. Those ''players'' that never talk in charcter, constantly chat to each other about their real lives in main meeting rooms, and won''t even go and fight a lowly rat unless there are at least seven of them in the group, outnumber the roleplayers by at least 20 to 1, even in the most ardently roleplay-enforced worlds.

Reality isn''t the goal, total immersion is.

quote: Original post by DM
Reality isn''t the goal, total immersion is.

Very true




"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.
Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

In Fallout 2, if you kill someone inside town (so that a guard see/hear ut) he will attack you...

And if you kill store owners, a "Out of buissnes" sign will appear...

And if you kill a LOT of people in towns etc, you will find your face on wanted posters... and you start to encounter bounty hunters (as random encounters)

=======================
Game project(s):
www.fiend.cjb.net

Really? I''ve got to check out Fallout 2 sometime. I''ve played the Fallout 1 demo, but I have to admit the turn-based combat just seems too slow...

"Actually, it would seem more realistic if it was ok to kill peasants etc. in fantasy games since that was how things worked in mediaevil times. No guard would attack a noble for killing some simple peasants. In feudal times the peasants were the property of the owner of the land where they lived."

First of all, the vast majority of nobles would no kill a peasent for no reason. As you said commoners were just a couple steps up from any other piece of property. I don''t know about you but I try to keep my property in good condition.

Next in everquest you do not play a noble, nothing even remotely like a noble. You start in abject poverty and stay that way for quite some time.

The faction system is a joke. Nothing less. I''m sure all EQ players would agree with me. On the pvp servers it is even more absurd.

I also maintain that in a multiplayer game people are there to interact with other people. That is why I am against NPCs, and monsters too, in such games. A few would be ok but just as dressing.

******* begin disclaimer *******
i''ve never played a MMORPG, but have read so many posts about them, i feel like i have
******* end disclaimer *********

i tend to agree with the last A.P. i don''t think there should be too many NPCs in MM games, as the main thing they seemed to be used for (despite whatever their purpose is), is something that players kill. there should probably be store owners and town guards (to inforce some semblance of civilization), but what do peasants really add to the game? and maybe some strong characters played by people on the payroll, to make sure things stay interesting (i think this is already done by some MMORPGs, right?)

------------------------
IUnknown *pUnkOuter

"Try the best you can
try the best you can
the best you can is good enough"
--Radiohead