Hi there, my last post (and first) caused a small war on the messageboard - ''think before posting...''. Well it''s time for another one. This time i''m going to give some clear advice for all of you who are new to programming in general, or game specific programming. But before I continue, I''ll give you some background info, last week my cousin (he is 14 years old) asked me for advice on how he could start programming and make his own games. Of cource I encourged him and answered some of his questions. I told him he should read as many books as possible - if programming was something he really wanted to pursue. He asked me if had heard of a book called ''Windows Game Programming For Dummies'' by André LaMothe? I''ve read quite a lot books and I had never heard of this guy. My cousin got a little disapointed of me not knowing who he was, but anyway the next day he bought the book... Last friday, my cousin came to me for some help. He brought the book he had bought and wanted some help. I quickly browsed the book and was shocked with its content. I told my cousin to try to return the book to the store... I''ve done some research on this LaMothe guy, he seems to be some sort a newbie god. With a title like ''Windows Game Programming for Dummies'' he is nothing but a simple fraud. Why am I so hostile? Here are some reasons... - as his book(s) is targeted for an unexperienced programmer, they have no advice on how to structure your code. Even though these are some advanced topics they should be kept in mind as you progress as a programmer. Sticking to C and doing all sorts of hack and general crappy coding should not be exposed to ''newbies''. - This guy has no real experience of writing games than the crap he ships with his books - and some of the other outdated stuff he has screenshots of on his site. - take a look at the back of the WGFD book - how many of these points are actually discussed in the book. - please people be reasonable, if you want become a intermediate programmer with basic graphics programming skills you need to dedicate at least 8-10 months(spare time) of practical programming. You CAN''T read ONE book and think of your self as a programming guru. Anyway here some advice (which I also gave to my cousine) : - find a good book about JAVA and learn the basic (basic OOP and the general programming basics). By starting to programming in JAVA, you''ll get a safe and clean enviroment to experiment - while you still are forced to imbrace structured programming methods. - if you want to program graphics, you''ll need to learn C++. As this language is industry standard (game programming) you''ll need to know it really well. You already know the basics - so you can concentrate on the more advanced stuff (templated/inheritance) etc. - the best advice I can give is really simple, write as much code as you probably can. You can read tons of other peoples source code - but you will learn nothing, unless you understand the idea behind the code (algorithm) and try to implement it yourself. Of cource I understand some of you proably had great usage of LaMothes book(s) - and will probably argue that I''m nothing but a fool. I could be wrong, so please feel free to discuss. Thanks for your time, BZ

See the link below to the XTreme Games Legal Defense Fund? Click on it, and then see why Andre LaMothe has been so busy the past few months.

Check your info before you flame.


People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~

well I wouldn''t call Andre LaMothe a fraud. At least he wasn''t 5 or so years ago. But things changed since then. I''m not disputing your claims that this book is worthless, since I haven''t read it and have no use for such a book. But its hard to say exactly what somebody is going to need to know first to learn how to program games. I doubt learning JAVA is a good first step. And I believe hacks and general crappy coding can be good in a book if something is learned from it and a point is made (and dont misquote me on that).

- cmaker

he who had nothing to do with the "think before posting..." thread.

madkeith,

i''d like to check my info, but i don''t see laMothe mentioned
anywhere on this page. whats his connection? why is he so busy?
it doesn''t come out very clearly =P

otherwise, i agree with bz. laMothe''s coding style is imho not
appropriate for a teaching book (esp. for newbies). i think it''s
better to introduce them to gameprogramming with clean code rather then through all sort of hacks. get it ''right'' from the start.

.entrox

entrox,

Lamothe is the founder of xtreme games. This has nothing to do with his books. but it proves he does have real experience in writing games contrary to what bz said. Look at the http://www.xgames3d.com/ main page. judge for yourself.

cmaker

- its not the principle. its the money.

I totally disagree.

The reason why I like LaMothe''s books is that they allow new programmers to start creating games rather quickly. Most readers of these books are hobbyists/amateurs who don''t necessarily want to spend 8-10 months studying object oriented programming before they can load their first sprite.

While LaMothe''s books might not cover programming fundamentals as well as, say a whole book devoted to C++, I think that it allows newbies to get a taste for game programming, which will eventually inspire them to seek other resources for how to improve their code, etc.

Amateur game programming should be FUN not work, and I got that feeling from LaMothe when I read his book. He presents topics in a casual style that is engaging and humorous, which I think makes his books well suited for those who have little previous programming experience.

I always feel compelled to defend LaMothe because I think he''s done a lot to make amateur game programming much more accessible to the average person. Check out his website and you''ll also see that this guy is really putting himself out on a limb for all of us with the Xtreme Games Legal Defense Fund.

Steve

My personal experiences with LaMothe''s books have been okay. I actually first got in to game programming about 6 years ago when I stopped in a store I NEVER go in about 150 miles away from where I live, and saw his book Tricks of the Game Programming Gurus. That was the very moment that my career oriented life began (it''s so cool being able to see the exact moment in time . I read the whole book without knowing a single command in C (boy did it look strange Next week I bought a C programming book, learned C for the next few months, then went on to tackle graphics again after I started getting board with text based stuff.

I never actually went through that book start to finish coding everything in there, but it helped a ton for referance. For example, how do I load a PCX file, how do I set mode 13h. I found the answers in his book. It helped me with things of that sort. I didn''t have the internet at that time either.

So I guess I''ve only read one of his books, but it was usefull. I think the trick is simply to know your objectives and actually be capable of thinking for yourself. You should be able to read a book like that and know enough to disagree with something. Just because a person is a "newbie" at programming doesn''t mean they are brain dead.

The fact of the matter is, there aren''t many books out there that teach you basic graphics/game programming stuff. So I think you have to use what you can get.

While learning C, I developed my own programming style that was quite different from what was in any of the books I''ve read. Much cleaner and easier to read IMO.

Later on I bought a book about windows game programming with DirectX (not by LaMothe) and realized that I SHOULD (but didn''t have to) learn the Win32 API first.

I bought a book just on Win32 API coding. It was as boring as heck to learn, and more complicated than DOS coding, but I guess it''s a requirement. Otherwise if you delve into DX coding in a windows environment you won''t have the first clue what anything is doing, you''ll just do it and hope that it works. ...then I guess if it doens''t work, since you don''t have enough knowledge to know why, you''ll just post on the GDN message board

Anyway, that''s that. Take it or leave it. But I learned the crap I needed to learn in order to become a successfull programmer using what was available and no "outside advice" other than the books. I didn''t know anyone at the time who knew a thing about it so I was on my own.

Anyway br, that''s not a personall attack or anything, just my experience and take on things. Thank God we''re able to have opinions

Isaac Vanier
Lead Developer
Satellite Moon
www.SatelliteMoon.com

Sorry about that, br = bz. damned brain farts!

Let me give my take on this.

First off, I''ve met LaMothe. He''s a rather nice guy. I don''t think he has a god complex, really.

On his books:

The point of his books is not to teach you coding practices. For that, he suggests Code Complete. The point is to, as simply as possible, show you how to do certain things in DirectX. He uses C to make it simple. He keeps the design and structure simple to keep it simple. I have found his books extremely valuable, because when I need to know how to play a sound, I just want to see the bare minimum of what it takes. I can design and structure the wrapper myself, I just want to see, in the most simple terms, "This is the most simple way. Here are a couple of things you can also do. Have fun." If I''m concerned about the way I make designs, I will consult a book on the subject such as Code Complete.

I guess it''s just a matter of what you use it for.

It''s impossible to make a book big enough to fit every little nuance in it. Heck, TOTWGPG is going to be in multiple volumes.

-fel

Blackstream here,

I don''t know about that, bz. I learned a lot from that book. I don''t think it really targets people who don''t know C/C++, but people who know it but want to learn how to make games.

When I got the book, I already had basic C++ knowledge down and I was ready to learn DirectX and basic game knowledge. Okay, actually, I had already screamed through the internet and actually had a workable knowledge of DirectX and had even made a psuedo-game before getting this book. But I did learn how to program better than I was with DirectX when I got the book.

I can''t defend his games, because I haven''t seen any that he has made. I''d advise you to take a look at his newest book, "Tricks of the Windows Game Programming Guru''s" or something like that. It is more advanced than WGPFD and is all around better in my opinion.

My opinion? Yes, definitly learn C++ before tackling his books or you''ll be slammed. Even WGPFD is not for people who want to start programming, it is for people who want to start programming games.

I must say though, I totally agree that Java is a great language. I think that it is kinda cool how it forces you into inheritance

Note: Yes, I do have both WGPFD and Tricks of the Windows Game Programming Guru''s. Of course, my opinion may be a little bias because I only have "Inside DirectX" (Great book as well, by the way) besides those books, so there may be better books out there.

-Blackstream

"See you later, I'm going to go grab a few Bytes. I'm so thirsty, I could drink a whole data stream."