concerning combat ... I have to LOL
I mean, I am the anti fighter by excellence. I did some Tae Kwon Do and loved it because of the teacher, but stopped it when competition started. I did a bit of Karate. I have a nice sword that reminds me how hard it is to just wield the damn thing with one arm. I like to practice with my wee cousins (with latex swords) to realise that all the nice moves you learn sometimes jst cant do nothing against a berserk opponent that jsut rush towards you hitting all he can ... etc.
But the one thing I learnt, is that you rarely *need* to fight. I mean, in my whole life, I had like two fights, both solved in one blow. First time I got grappled by the throat and surrendered to an older guy in primary school, which quickly taught me to learn the art of diplomacy. Much later, I had to make a statement by kicking someone in the balls ( "Fatality !" )

But throughout my whole life, I evaded all fight situation through talking and not getting in a dangerous situation in the first place. Most of the time, I''d befriend the strongest guys in class and they''ll naturally come to protect me in case of danger... or I''ll simply turn the followers against the leader to annihilate their wish to attack me (the kick in the balls situation being to humiliate the leader in front of his friends, for instance).

HOW OFTEN can you apply this kind of tactics in a game ?
I always thought that fighting was much too painful to be a first answer to any aggression, and most of the times I jsut get away with talk ... so why is it I can''t talk those bandits in leaving me alone ? Or why is it that I have to annihilate the enemy faction in all RTS ??
Yeah, give me a bit more cowardice in games :->

youpla :-P

Well do schoolyard brawls count as research?

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I love sparring, I think it''s just about the funnest thing there is. Not brawling mind you, brawling is just senseless. But sparring, that''s a different story. It''s all about strategy and reflexes. Reflexes are obvious, but strategy comes in when you start throwing attacks that aren''t meant to land but instead to distract and create an open. It is so much fun to go up against a guy 2 or 3 ranks ahead of me and see the smug look on his face when we begin, only to see him cowar during the fight, and then sulk afterwords. I love it! I don''t do it to everyone, just the punks that think they are so great because they''ve been at it longer. Before you can know pride, first you must know humility. I think I just made that up, but it sounds like some kind of chinese proverb.

Are you even trying to be intelligent?
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Same here. Sparring is the only sport I really enjoy- both watching and participating. Especially the esoteric Kung Fu styles- (if you''ve ever seen the Ba Kwa(sp?)Dragon Style, you know what I mean) But still, its nothing like a real brawl. I''ve never been in one myself, (well, I''ve been on the receiving end, but that''s a different story ) but the difference is obvious just from watching.

And yes! I would love to see that in a game. No fancy spin-kicks or Bruce Lee squawking. Just hard, intense, brutal bashing. It would be mindless, but fun. Don''t even ask me how I''d go about implementation, tho''. I haven''t the foggiest.

I said this in my above post, but I''ll say it again- what''s your thoughts on the kind of research we should be doing? Its all well and good to do formal research for ideas, but what about the implementation? Since we''re emulating an experience in most cases, not running physics simulations- which is more valuable as a resource: A book on ballistics, or a real-life hitman''s autobiography?

If you see the Buddha on the road, Kill Him. -apocryphal

Honestly, Landfish.. trying to stir up trouble?

I honestly think that you don''t HAVE to know how to really fight.. because who in the hell is programming real-world physics into their games, anyways?!?! NO ONE!

I''d love to see a game where gravity is at .5, and the people look different as a result.. but is there such a thing? nope!

I think that people need to work on a better physics engine in their games, before they start hitting the books to find out how combat works. Yes, i''ve swung a sword before. Yes, i''ve been in combat before. I personally own two longswords and one large dagger One longsword is show, the other is actually useable! And i use it plus the dagger, for fun ;p The dagger has a wavey blade with one half of it being a sword breaker!
I think the single biggest misconception is STRENGTH and ENDURANCE.. which i guess goes back to your whole issue about guys talking about sex who''ve never tried it. Sorry, sex isn''t done with your arm, more with your abs. go to some crunches ;p
It takes a buttload of strength to swing a sword arround properly. It takes even more endurance to do it multiple times. And if you''ve even played baseball with a wooden bat.. you know somewhat of how it feels when two swords hit together. Steel doesn''t bend When you make contact with someone''s sword.. it hurts. And have you ever seen a sword that''s been used? It''s got knicks, scratches.. etc ALL over the blade. Now, imagine getting run-through with something like that. We''re talking permanent fatal damage
You see, those knicks act like fishhooks, grabbing your skin and ripping away at it. We''re talking.. massively painful stuff And do you even know what a blood channel is? if not.. perhaps you need to go find out, because without one you could never get your sword back out of someone.

And while we''re on weapons, landfish failed to mention weapons other than melee Crossbows.. the single deadliest weapon in the medieval ages. Why? it can be compared to an exploding bullet today. When a bolt hits your skin, is was like a big needle. Now, little needles pierce in easily. But this large needle doesn''t. No, i applied so much force to your skin, that when it punctured.. your body released the force built up. This meant your skin usually exploded in that area. 9/10 times, you would instantly go into shock. No one ever survived a crossbow bolt to any half-way vital area.. EVER.
As for arrows.. most people know a good ammount about these. They fire, you hit, and the person''s stuck with a fishhook in em They only way to really get an arrow out is to push it through, break off the head, and pull the shaft out. lovely, huh?

Oh.. landfish.. did we forget to talk about disease? Even if you survived a swordfight.. if you''d gotten cut, you most likely were diseased Why? well.. think.. who in the hell washed their sword? because of knicks and such.. the metal would begin to rust. this rust would usually get left in a cut.. and then.. well.. think about it.. that''s what landfish obivously is trying to achieve

J

Oh.. btw.. you can''t actually sit down and say "well, this guys skill vs this guy''s skill means guy A will win". It doesn''t work like that!
That''s why most games use a random dice roll It''s called probability!!! WHEE! In AD&D 2nd edition, as your THAC0 dropped.. you had a better chance to hit someone. note the key word.. CHANCE. that''s combat. you could swing, and be blocked, EVERY SINGLE TIME. but chance plays a key roll. If you examine one person fighting another of the EXACT same skill.. then they''d most likely be hitting eachother. You see.. to strike an even balance, you have to have someone with X skill on offense vs someone with X skill on defense. However.. someone would still get a hit in. Chance is the way this happens Probability and statistics.. fun stuff.

BTW.. landfish.. i''ve never gotten into a fight and not walked away the winner when it was something serious. so that whole fetal thing.. maybe you should talk to a doctor about that And try working out.. hehe.

J

You know, I am just about sick and tired of Landfish spewing out the same stuff everyday. And I must agree with what the fisrt anonymous poster wrote. Where is your stuff Landfish ?
This is a quote from one of your posts in another thread......

quote:
With all due respect guys, you''re hardly the first people to say this stuff. I said it, people before me said it. In fact, I highly doubt you''ll find anyone in GDNet who thinks that Damage measurement could be done in some way far superior to HP.

HP sucks. Now, this Forum said "New Ideas about RPGs". So where are they? Okay, HP sucks. What are we going to replace them with? Okay, the gameplay inhales a donkey''s rear, very nice of you to tell us. We knew this already.

Like I said in my prior post, if you really want to impress people, fix it. Anyone can complain. You''ve recognized a problem, so are you going to just sit there and bitch all day?

that was written by Landfish in another thread. So Landfish where is your work like the anonymous poster stated ? Or are you just gonna sit there and bitch all day (every day I might add).


"Now go away or I shall taunt you a second time"
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail
themGames Productions

quote: Original post by Niphty

Sorry, sex isn't done with your arm, more with your abs. go to some crunches ;p

Uh, depends on what you're doin', doesn't it? Sometimes, it's manual dexterity that counts all the world!

quote:
As for arrows.. most people know a good ammount about these. They fire, you hit, and the person's stuck with a fishhook in em They only way to really get an arrow out is to push it through, break off the head, and pull the shaft out.

'Cept if you were a Mongol with that then hi-tech silk-lined armor, right? The silk can twist around the arrow head, making it easier to pull out. This was supposed to be one of the reasons the Mongols did so well in battle... ultimately fewer forces lost to fatalities.

See, this is what LF is talking about: Research!!! How many games do you know of where silk lined armor is great vs. arrows???





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Just waiting for the mothership...

Edited by - Wavinator on October 21, 2000 8:23:07 PM

ncsu121978,
LF may not have concrete completed works, but he has diligently tried to form solutions or at least alternatives to the way games are designed as many of us have. Anyone can explain what's wrong w/ something, but it takes thought to come up w/ a solution. Even if the solution is not implemented into an entier work, it's a step closer than just noting the problems w/ other people's ideas.

I think people mistake LF's slight arrogance for trying to project that he's something that he's not. LF may be incredibly opinionated, but he's not trying to say he's the god of all game design ideas.



""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator

"All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be." -Pink Floyd

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


Edited by - Nazrix on October 21, 2000 8:37:01 PM

quote: Original post by Wavinator

''Cept if you were a Mongol with that then hi-tech silk-lined armor, right? The silk can twist around the arrow head, making it easier to pull out. This was supposed to be one of the reasons the Mongols did so well in battle... ultimately fewer forces lost to fatalities.

See, this is what LF is talking about: Research!!! How many games do you know of where silk lined armor is great vs. arrows???

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Just waiting for the mothership...

Edited by - Wavinator on October 21, 2000 8:23:07 PM

That''s cool...I didn''t know that...That''s going in my game hehe.
The worst thing is that the "professional" game developers are probably the ones that stick to copying other''s ideas, and they''re the ones w/ more resources to actually do more research. If a game has one or more people specifically to do the designing, they could have time to do research. With a small team (just me in my case) I must concentrate on all the technical aspects as well as the designing.






""You see... I'm not crazy... you see?!? Nazrix believes me!" --Wavinator

"All you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be." -Pink Floyd

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.