I really think it''s just that LF is contraversial on purpose just because he likes the conversation to get heated. I remember a long time ago when we were talking about something and LF mentioned that he was probably treating the issue too black & white. That''s when I realized how he is. He just purposely goes overboard on everything for some reason whether it''s for contraversy or to get people excited.

I think that LF will debate as a Devil''s Advocate at least 70% of the time, so it just seems that he''s arguing w/ everyone. Agreeing can sometimes be as productive as arguing however.

When LF starts a thread he makes it so that it will get people''s attention and usually piss them off a bit. There''s evidence of this: I started that thread in the Game Writing forum about "Must RPG''s have a story". LF practically had the same point months ago (only his said something like "Never make another RPG", and tons of people flamed him because they didn''t understand what he was really saying. He just likes to get people''s attention and it''s easy to misinterpret him.

Sorry MKV...I just had to say that.


"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd

"Though the course may change someimes the rivers always reach the sea" --Led Zeppelin

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.

quote: Original post by Niphty
Now, when i play a game.. do i want to play reality, or do i want to play a game?
Like it was said before.. CONSITANCY is the key.

LF has often argued against realism good design. Please go to http://www.landfish.com/philosophy.html, and look at item #5. I believe that''s what you were sighting as "consistancy".

As for not suggesting solutions to the problems he illuminates, that''s simply untrue. (you know who''s writing this by now... ) He often doesn''t post simply because he can''t find a solution himself. Go back and find some threads he started, and if he doesn''t mention at least ONE way of doing something differently in the first post, I will be amazed.

There are a lot of assumptions flying around here about what he has and hasn''t done. It''s pretty silly.

quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster

As for not suggesting solutions to the problems he illuminates, that''s simply untrue. (you know who''s writing this by now... ) He often doesn''t post simply because he can''t find a solution himself. Go back and find some threads he started, and if he doesn''t mention at least ONE way of doing something differently in the first post, I will be amazed.

There are a lot of assumptions flying around here about what he has and hasn''t done. It''s pretty silly.

Ok.. this is a thread you/"he" started.. let''s examine it. We pretend we know it all as a designer.. wake up, we don''t know "dick". We like to think we''re based in reality, but we''re not. Do research.. rip things off. We don''t know everything, we should admit we know nothing, and listen carefully to things we hear. oh, and this also goes for landfish.

Would you call "do research" a suggestion in this case? To me, it sounds like the main idea with a buncha BS wrapped around it to try to make people hate you. I must admit, you do a good job of it. Although, if you ever find yourself without friends and alone.. perhaps you should try something the rest of the world likes to call "tact". go look that one up and do some research on it.
Perhaps Naz is willing to sit back, accept you for who you are, and allow you to post inflamitory remarks. Keith lets you get away with it cause you''re trying to spark debate. However, were I moderator, you''d be edited left and right to make you seem a bit more.. friendly. I mean, this IS a friendly discussion board where we should SHARE thoughts and ideas, right? So why would i want to sit around and listen to a streetcorner preacher telling me about my sins and how i should repent? Cause landfish, you know that''s all you are at this point. And trust me, we have enough of those in tennessee already. And yes, i argue with them too.. which is really quite enjoyable. They have the same comebacks as you.. they''re sure they "know" the right answer, so they need not explain themselves to someone like me who obivously doesn''t "know".

Ok, so perhaps once in every 100 posts you''ll make a contribution with your own original thought. However, that means 99% of the time you''re whining about why other people don''t see things your way, and complaining because the "industry" isn''t the way you think it should be. I''m sorry, but go do some research on capitalism. WE LIVE in a capitalist society these days. People will do ANYTHING for the right ammount of money. I mean, heck.. i get paid 15 dollars an hour to install computers, something i think is the easiest thing in the world! And if i worked retail, i''d get paid minimum wage for something i hate to do! Anyone can do retail, which is why it''s such low pay. But it''s pretty rare to find people who can install a computer network and troubleshoot it, especially where i live! So ask yourself.. do you want to work a crummy job for minimum wage, or a good job for high pay? If anyone doesn''t admit to high pay, then they''re prolly lying to themselves about what they really want in life. I mean.. if you want retail high pay, you get to be a manager.. but you can still do that.
If you haven''t taken econ class lately, i advise you to go and try to figure a few things out about how society today works. MS has power because they have money. Game companies control the direction the game market moves in because they have money. EVERYTHING in the professional world revolves around money. People work free for you now, landfish, because once they''ve got a good title under their belts, they can get an even better paying job than if they had nothing. Everything in the long term is for the dollar. We''d like to believe we can achieve nirvana without money, but we''d hafta be withdrawn from modern society to do so. I personally like modern society, and i want to be at the forefront of new technologies and whatnot.. so i''m all about the dollar.
Whining about how big companies get their way seem pretty futile to me. I mean, you might be out to change the world in your own way.. but so are those streetcorner preachers. So tone it down a bit, try being people''s friend instead of their enemy, and you''ll find you reach a lot more people beside them than at odds with them.

J

I think we all realize that the world revolves around money. It's just that it's nice at least for discussions sake to actually think that we could use some unique or at least more unique ideas. For me, I don't really have much desire to be a "professional" game programmer. I don't really think I'm good enough anyway, but the main reason is that I actually want to enjoy the creative freedom behind it.

So, for me, it's nice to think of game development as a creative outlet that I wouldn't mind making some kind of profit with, but not a living. If we all were to say, "well, we know what sells out there in the market, and it isn't ending goblin genocide", then there wouldn't be much discussion.

The thing is that I know that you know all this Niphty. I know that LF is stubborn, but are you sure this isn't misplaced anger toward the Landfish? Maybe a walking fish did some hurtful thing to you when you were younger? j/k



"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be --Pink Floyd

"Though the course may change sometimes, the rivers always reach the sea" --Led Zeppelin

Need help? Well, go FAQ yourself.


Edited by - Nazrix on October 26, 2000 11:09:18 AM

[Oh no you don't, LF, you will not be continuing this war. It's going to stop RIGHT here.]

Edited by - MadKeithV on October 27, 2000 3:08:04 AM

Guys, this is NOT the lounge, so stop posting pointless replies to this thread.... I''m getting a little pissed off here.

*starts removing all needless replies*


People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~

Okay, I''ve thought a bit, removed about 5 messages, and this is my decision:

This thread is closed. It has run it''s course, and I seriously started getting the impression that it had turned into a "World vs. Niphty" thread. I will not have any of that.

Any more discussions on the upsides and downsides of ANYONE''s character will be started in the lounge if you want to have it. Any post of this kind in this forum will be deleted, not moved.
This is a Game Design forum, not an "Attack someone else''s opinion" forum. Friendly discussion works just as well.

Landfish, while I realise you have probably been personally targeted a bit more than most of us, let it go. It won''t do anyone any good if you keep digging it up.
That goes for everyone else too, by the way. See the previous point.

I''ll be keeping a close watch on messages for a while, if I have the time.


People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~