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Original post by Mayrel Generally, things that look violent are violent. That's because evolution has caused us to see things that are violent as violent-looking.

I'm not sure I totally agree here. Yes, if something has sharp hard enameled protrusions on its hands, head or in its mouth, it's functionally likely there for attack (occassionally for defense). But take the difference between a rat and a mouse. Both are vermin, but mice get more of a pass culturally because a snub nose happens to coincide with infant features. Both rat and mouse can be destructive, can bite and can spread disease, but one's pretty enough to make it as a mascot for a multibillion dollar theme park chain. (Can you imagine 'Mickey Rat' being as popular?)

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What is important here is that a character that is familiar with a peaceful but aggressive looking alien race will not think that alien race looks aggressive. The player does not have the luxury of having been brought up in the world in which the game is set. In an RPG, the player should see the world the way his or her character would see the world, not the way the player would see the world if the player were actually there. If the character would think that an alien looked friendly, the player should think the same when he or she sees the alien.

Rather than relying on visual stereotypes and clues, I think the best way to handle this is through learning and repeat exposure. Otherwise, to immerse the player, you'll have to use stereotypes.

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This also relates to facial expressions. A human who's never seen a Kragarnian Flabblehop would rightly be confused by its facial expressions (assuming it has a face). On the other hand, if you're playing a Kragarnian Flabblehop, the facial expressions should make sense, whilst a human's body language would be unreadable.

I like the idea in principle, but it would take alot more graphics work than I have the resources for to remove a human's cultural cues from the game. For instance, making a posture of two hands together holding some device pointing at you unknown and unthreatening would take nothing less than graphically changing how the alien player received symbols. That's not visually possible using a common set of art and models.

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Original post by Wavinator Rather than relying on visual stereotypes and clues, I think the best way to handle this is through learning and repeat exposure. Otherwise, to immerse the player, you'll have to use stereotypes.

Ah, so we agree that only through _getting to know_ the species will we really, errr, know them. So is it that important how they appear to us on first inspection ? If it makes _gameplay_ better, is it such a big deal that you play on stereotypes for "first contact" ?

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I like the idea in principle, but it would take alot more graphics work than I have the resources for to remove a human's cultural cues from the game. For instance, making a posture of two hands together holding some device pointing at you unknown and unthreatening would take nothing less than graphically changing how the alien player received symbols. That's not visually possible using a common set of art and models.

Ah ! One of the reasons I believe PnP RPGs will never disappear :)
The only way to address the problem is to limit visual cues and increase the use of the narrative element.
Say, you get to see the face of your antagonist in a medallion view a la Ultima (possibly with facial expressions to denote various emotions), but you mostly use the narrative to express what's going on and to play on the feeling of totally alien culture and feeling.
In one PnP roleplaying game I tried (called Alienoids), you play Predator type aliens come to Earth to hunt the local species (i.e. humans). Most of the fun of the game is to try to figure out what the DM is describing to you, because if they do it properly, you shouldn't be able to use your knowledge of human too easily. For instance, if some native biped starts shouting and gesticulating, emitting loud high pitched noises with a metal protrusion on its vocal operture while frantically waving some sort of wooden device in your general direction, you might guess that you are looking at a policeman blowing a whistle and wielding a baton, but then again, it's more fun to figure that out than just being told it straight.

I think the only game I have played so far that _really_ put me in the middle of a totally alien civilisation and did it quite nicely was Albion, by Blue Byte studio. Maybe you can check it out :)

And what about Farscape, Wavy ;-)

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Original post by ahw And what about Farscape, Wavy ;-)

Well if nothing else, you are persistent. ;)

Let's put it this way, I dont know of any other artist/studio that has consistently pushed the limit of puppetry and created so many original monsters/creatures than the Jim Henson company and its Creature Shop.
Actually, if you wanna see some of the costumes used on the show, there is a website that has plenty of cool photos : there
Although these are only humanoid type aliens (the really tricky ones are made by the Creature Shop, IIRC).

Babylon 5 was a great show, for instance, but what Farscape has is really really cool settings, and monsters, and characters. Oh what can I say, it's an inspiration to me :)

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Original post by ahw Babylon 5 was a great show, for instance, but what Farscape has is really really cool settings, and monsters, and characters. Oh what can I say, it's an inspiration to me :)

Alright, you forced me to do it!!! [grin]

I watched the first 4 episodes tonight! It was very refreshing to see truly alien aliens that weren't portrayed as monsters. The Pilot and the little floating guy were great examples, but I also see what you mean about being able to make really alien looking humanoids, too. In one episode they did a great job of using makeup to stretch the normal aspect ratio of the human face to create ambiguity yet still make them sympathetic. Even the drug-addicted "tabloid" [smile] guys in power armor were made sympathetic through one captured character, though they still used the well worn trope of "battle scarred mutants are teh evul!!!!" in the beginning.

My own designs are duly influenced. Thanks!