Does anyone know of any decent games that are what could be called a true Fighting Sim? I know there are games like street fighter style but im looking for something more than punch hi/low kick hi/low. If this isn''t already a game or at least a style of computer sim fighting maybe ill put some time into learning how to make it. Basically it ccould be a storyline game, like DoubleDragon but with a possible PvP mode. Im nto worried about story or anything yet. Heres the physics of the game: 2 People face off. Thered be certian combination keys to perform an action like from standing : Options are back/forehand hit to face/arm/front/leg same with kicks. There would be multiple styles so that instead of hits you have grappling. And certian styles would inflict more damage for certain types of hits. Instead of a life meter you basically have a stamina and mind meter. Then each body part has its own strength and sub-stamina that is affected by how it is hit. The more damage done to your right leg, the less you can use it effectively. This would all be real-time, not turbo (unless realtime was actually too slow for fun). And since its hard to react even in real life to a punch to your face, your character would have a "reflex" attribute built in. This would be affected by your stamina and mind and could increase throught 1P game. This reflex would take care of, say, dodging the first punch and giving you that split second to counter. I would have it include ragdoll physics so getting kicked in the left leg could make you fall. And so on. There are a lot of different things you could do. Basically Im just sick of all the punch/kick 2 button games that happen to have wonderful graphics, but are just more intense. A real fight with martial arts is more of a chess game then pure brute strength. Well, this is just what I was thinking about. Does anyone know of any games that are already like this? Maybe our machines arent fast enough yet. Or our input devices are not intuitive enough for reflexive action other than clicking a mouse button at the right time.

Almost *all* fighting games out there are Street Fighter style. In fact, I can't think of one that isn't.
That's actually a great idea for a fighting game because it's something new (even if it has been done, there can't be many out there).

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[edited by - Azrioc on March 16, 2004 4:00:00 PM]

The only problem is that I have nowhere near the skill to even start a game like this.

I have many P&P games i made like that. but nothing on the pc and yes i beleive there is one game tthat is something like that not 100% but close. Bushido Blade.

What i would like to see is a realistic Damage from swords and such. Id love to Lose the evil HP for ever.

the system wouldnt be extremely complex infact its pretty close to whats out now. BUt developers dont like to take chances.

Anyone remember Karate Champ? It''s old, like 1985 old. Look for it in emulator form (NES). It was a really neat form of the standard rock/paper/scissors setup, with maybe a half-dozen karate moves (performed with two joysticks) and two or three appropriate blocking maneuvers. Any contact constituted a point, and the "judge" would award it as the fighters returned to their starting positions. Points were usually scored with between one and five moves, but I had matches last for far longer sometimes.

It was simple, of course, but the overall feel was one of very high stakes and no guarantees. The moves were pretty fast, but if you were good you could block them in time.

quote: Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
...Anyone remember Karate Champ? ...

Ah... The good old days.

But to the question, Tekken 2 was very realistic martial arts simulation. Aside from the really high jumps sometimes and the ocassion odd character, the game is very true to martials arts.

Ask yourself though, if the game were extremely realistic, would it be fun? Have you ever been in fight with a martials arts expert? I haven''t, but I don''t think it would be very entertaining.

There is the venerable 4d Boxing: Build up a fighter character by choosing some stats and defeating your opponents one by one, gaining with each victory until you face up against the awesome might of "The Champ."

Of course, I never really got the strategy in that one either, but it had to be there because it was plainly obvious that just bashing away at the buttons was not really the factor determining my victory or loss. It did feel fairly realistic given the graphical constraints(very early 90s flat-colored low-poly characters) but it was very subtle about it.

You could also try Fire Pro Wrestling. There are multiple versions, for the Dreamcast and GBA and maybe some others, and all the versions allow you to cover a wide range of fighting styles, not just over-the-top "professional-type" moves. The big feature is that you can build a wrestler, physical appearence, skills etc., and then customize him with moves out of a list of 100s. Within fights, you wear down your enemies first with your weak moves and then stronger ones until they are tired enough to be pinned(or you K.O. them). Depending on your strategy you can make standing and running attacks, or head in close to grapple(a timing test, possibly the weakest part of the game). Once you knock down the other guy you have a whole different set of moves to use on him. There''s a huge array of possibilities, but if you only want to win fights you can simply go build a cheap character with a whole bunch of punch and kick attacks that just wears down opponents from afar until they collapse. It''s an unfortunate flaw, but a fun game regardless.

The funny thing about the argument that "SF fighting is not like REAL fighting," is that in many ways it is; your character knows the skills well enough to be able to literally perform moves at the press of a button(I do concede that special move combinations are annoying in this respect, adding an unnecessary layer of difficulty, but an excellent example of a game that DOESN''T rely on those is Smash Brothers). The real difficulty comes in the player''s learning effective uses for his moves, and the weaknesses of his opponents. It admittedly feels somewhat lopsided in some respects, since all the training and improvement happens on the player''s end, while the characters'' moves will stay the same regardless of who''s at the controls, but when it comes down to it, all the champion fighter players are strategists, not button-mashers. It doesn''t LOOK realistic, but it''s certainly led to some great play.

how about doing it like vagrant story?...its not exactly realtime or turnbase

Now wait just a second... When you talk about a fighting sim, are you talking about simulating the experience of a knock-down, drag-out fight between two people, or an accurate portrayal of kumate, or a game about training and then competing?

A simulation of an actual fight will probably not have a lot of kung-foolery in it. I've studied some martial arts, and I've studied some defensive tactics, and I've studied the tactical application of knives and firearms. I'll tell you right now that if I'm in a fight for a reason other than proving that my kung-fu is the most deadly in China, I'm going to start the fight with some footwork, and then shoot or stab the guy to death. If no weapons are around, I'll do my damnedest to knock him down and jump on his gonads. Flying spinning reverse crescent kicks are all well and good, but if you can connect with that, then you can connect with a roundhouse kick or a front snap kick, and so can the other guy. I wouldn't exchange blows and blocks with a guy unless I had a big pipe and he didn't. If he gives me a hard time, he goes to the ground and it's crotch stomping time. If we go down together then I'll do my best to get up first.

That would make a crappy video game, because the controls would be bewildering and there'd be no real finesse.

If you're looking for kumate-style fighting, like in movies, then you've got two choices: Either you do just what every other fighting game does, with crushing blows, smashing environments, and big old HP meters, or else you go the way of Karate Champ, with one-hit scoring and a RPS gambit system (Kumate, like fencing, has a lot of rock/paper/scissors to it).

For the sim end of things, with training and such, look no farther than Kengo 2. It had HP meters, which was a little disappointing, but otherwise it was just the ticket. You start out weak, and through various training exercises, practice bouts and competition with other schools of kenjutsu, you acquire strength, speed, skill and new moves, which you can customise into your fighting style. You can also get fancy new swords and such. Neat game. Room for improvement, but the fundamentals are all there.

Edit: And if you're just looking for actual martial arts moves, Mortal Kombat: Deadly Alliance has impressive portrayals of a wide variety of fighting styles. Check it out sometime, it's way better than Soul Caliber 2.

[edited by - Iron Chef Carnage on March 18, 2004 10:43:47 AM]

I''ve played MK:DA and i do like it, but its still seems too limited. I''ve also trained a little martial arts (wing chun) and I know that in a real-life situation you would never trade blows like that.
A tournament style match wouldnt be too bad I guess. What im really looking for is a way to improve your character AND most important, have simulated real damage. If you''re in a match and someone snap kicks you on the inside of your knee and you go down, that leg will not be as effective keeping your balance or attacking/defending with anymore. I guess im really interested in "hotspots" for damage.