I think thats the smartest thing an Initiate has ever said :-)

And my best friend get''s in a race car every other week end :-)

BUT, I dont think this is really a relevant problem. This issue isn''t going to be faced for a BLOODY long time. How ever one problem which we are having, right now, is the lack of creativity. Ever since ID created the FPS there has been sod all truly NEW actualy created. People have made new vertions of old things, reinvented old favorites but it all just seems so the same.

This Depressing rant was brought to you by my crap day,
"All the crap taste, and only half the fat"



As Mr Cup always says,
''I pretend to work. They pretend to pay me.''

I think ColinMc2.0 was good for a few days of play but really its just exactly the same game all over with a slightly better feel (physics) to it. The worst thing was those concrete bails of hay. These little things in simulations annoy me no end

Need better physics, need better physics, need better physics...

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

Once the sim becomes like reality, it''s a simple matter of it becoming a marketting tool. Think about it, if you wanted to shop for a sports car, and you had this game with the top of the line mercedes models, top of the line jap sports cars, and top of the line american sports cars, well.. you could test them ALL before you drive them, without fear of.. well, anything

This will allow designers to test new ideas on the public BEFORE launching the car. It''ll totally revolutionize the car industry, if you think about it.

What we''ll never be able to do is to make the car "feel" the same way. I just widened my car''s track and slapped on some bigger, high grip tires, and i tell ya, the road feels so much different now. Soon i''ll get a completely new set of shocks and springs to complement the rest of things, and the ride will change again. No game can give you the sensation of sitting your butt down into a bucket racing seat and strapping on a 5-point harness, then revving the hell out of the engine and listening to it growl all the way back down the RPM band.

Ok, so test drive 6 satisfies the last of these.. but only when the car sits still. I had it rented for Dreamcast and pumped through my home theater system, and DAMN! that was some good vibrations. All of the cars, when sitting still, had this growl you wouldn''t believe. But they all sounded the same.. :/ and they sounded like high-whiney crap at higher RPM ranges. Need for Speed has them beat in respect to more realistic physics and whatnot. I also have Mobil1 Rally and ToCA2, both really great games I need a steering wheel, though

I think the games will get better, but so long as there are laws (no mad max or anything) then we''ll have to use sims to get the adrenaline rush to the common everyday joe Me, i personally on a sports car, so i can feel the rush anytime. But then again, i''m not the average person, i know how to drive, apex and speed-shift.. whoo!

AND, as long as there''s new cars, there''s a need for new sims. Need for Speed and Test Drive were both started out to showcase cars out of most people''s price range (give me the Mercedes CLK-GTR from NFS, please! ) and they''ve just grown and gotten better physics as they went along. We''re starting to get to the point where we can more realistically model damage in a real-time way, so.. it''s getting better, but i agree there''s a LOT of room to improve before it''s "real".

J

How about this for a car sim

Bbbrooooooomm

I just had to do that once.

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

I think racing sim is not a software problem but a hardware problem. Imagine a box with 4 monitors (front,back,left,right) and dashboard, seats like a real car. When you sit inside, 4 of the monitors will show images so realistic that it makes you feel like sitting in a real car. You can also experience accelerate, deccelerate in the box and when you crash into something, you will experience a big force. Such a hardware would give a real driving experience and you can really feel the pace of F1 inside the hardware.

This may be a little OT...

I want to see racing games turn a little bit more toward finesse, even in the arcade mode. GT2 for PSX required a little bit too much finesse to drive it in arcade mode--at least with the gamepad--but several new racing games I''ve played have arcade modes where all you have to do is hold the accelerator and maybe steer slightly.

I''d also like to see a change in the "invisible walls" trend. I''ve been playing Supercross Circuit for PSX (see a trend here?) and it has some of the most asinine track guards I''ve ever seen. If you hit a jump and jump past the track wall, you''ll simply bounce back and already be going in the right direction. If you hit the empty space between hay bales marking the wall, you''re likely to go flying off your bike. (BTW, there''s no animation for getting back on your bike--you simply disappear from your sprawled out crash position, and reappear on your bike.) If you run into a dirt wall, you''ll bounce off, rather than driving up it--this ruined my race several times. All of these are obvious programming choices, rather than just bugs...why are they in there?

--


All hail the Technoweenie!

Well as it''s already been mentioned, it''s very much a hardware issue. The coders have the choice of using the systems power for physics and graphics which really take precedence over collision detection i guess. There''s just not enough memory in consoles these days that''s the mail problem i think.

I''d also like to know why everyone that makes a car sim thinking that the game has to operate from a first person persective. I really am missing the old top view for racing sims.

I love Game Design and it loves me back.

Our Goal is "Fun"!

"
I''d also like to see a change in the "invisible walls" trend. I''ve been playing Supercross Circuit for PSX (see a trend here?) and it has some of the most asinine track guards I''ve ever seen. If you hit a jump and jump past the track wall, you''ll simply bounce back and already be going in the right direction. If you hit the empty space between hay bales marking the wall, you''re likely to go flying off your bike. (BTW, there''s no animation for getting back on your bike--you simply disappear from your sprawled out crash position, and reappear on your bike.) If you run into a dirt wall, you''ll bounce off, rather than driving up it--this ruined my race several times. All of these are obvious programming choices, rather than just bugs...why are they in there?
"
youve got a point there, i wanna computer game where i can drive off the track get on the highway , take my girlfriend for a walk like shes always neagging to do, stop off at the fish and chip shop and deliver them to my door WHILST theyre still hot after leaping a few cars on the way.

in reply to the original question thers such a long way to go before we hit reality. take the latest sony machine 1.2 gb polys a second == 16 psx2''s . unbelivable amount sure but a normal photo is 30,000,000 pixels (new scientest) which at 75 fps is 2.2 gb a second but the thing is, real life aint limited to 15 pixel, plain coloured, no lighting, non shadowed, non reflective polygons. where as these 1.2 gb are.

It''s not always going to be polygons you know... and data doesn''t always have to be streaming. There are techniques that allow you to generate entirely photorealistic scenes in near-interactive rates.

Visual and aural realism is something we are very rapidly approaching. However, physics, intelligence, touch, and smell are still pretty much neglected.


Give me one more medicated peaceful moment.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
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