To me, the only way to play a good driving game is from a view inside the car. How can you be realistic if your camera is 20 feet behind and above the car? I think if the camera looked either in the direction of the road, or in the direction of the front wheels regardless of the angle of the car, you should be able to see enough to drive well. Any comments?

I find that the problem with games that give you a first person view (such as FPSs) is that your view is too limited. I mean, since you''re playing the game on a computer screen, you don''t have peripheral vision the way you do in real life. Even as most FPSs are today, the field of view is much larger than it actually is in real life, and increasing it further results in *very* warped graphics. When playing a game such as Unreal Tournament, I like playing with a 3rd person view because it gives me a better view of the surrounding environment, and a good idea of how, say, a rocket hits my characters foot even though it would go way under me in a first-person view.

Yea, I think that is the only reason, screen size. I have a 17" widescreen laptop so its pritty close to my face.

Remember, your opinion is just an opinion and others who play your game may not share it. It would be silly to limit the game to one possible view just because that is what you like. If at all possible allow the user to choose.

Dan Marchant
Obscure Productions (www.obscure.co.uk)
Game Development & Design consultant

For some people the over-the-shoulder view allows them more control. From inside the cab, the player might not be able to discern what kind of steering is necessary to maintain control.

Carmageddon worked best from over the shoulder because when you jump a ramp or fall off a building and land upside down, it's impossible to quickly get your bearings from inside the vehicle.

[edited by - Waverider on December 28, 2003 1:49:02 AM]

I find that in a lot of racing games there are situations where the car will be sliding sideway (ie powerslide), and if you are in first person view, it can be extremely difficult to tell exactly what the car is doing because you can only look directly forward, you can''t turn your head like you could in real life. Maybe if a racing game had a first person view that smoothed out bumps like your body naturally does and could somehow always point the camera in a logical direction, not just directly at the front of the car. I know that''s probably a lot easier said than done, but it''s just a thought.

I think it would be ok to lock the view inside the car - IF there was some kind of directional force feedback when the car loses control, so that the player can react on instinct instead of just what his eyes tell him.

I don''t think it''s possible to give players a view that will accurately replicate the views that a driver sees while driving. I look over my shoulder, check mirrors, and anticipate curves and turns in a way that no computer algorithm can ever recreate faithfully. Even when a rear-view mirror is available, it doesn''t do the real thing justice, since I, when driving, will move my head around to get more information from the mirror than a 2" x 6" rectangle can provide.

Realism? I don''t know about you, but if there was a car that afforded me exactly 60 degrees of visibility, I wouldn''t be anywhere near it. Night vission goggles give you a wider field of view than that. The human eye can see between 180 and 270 degrees around the head, depending on skeletal structure, eye position and hairstyle. Any attempt to reproduce that experience will require either multiple monitors or a fisheye view, which generally does more harm than good.

So do what you can to give the player as much information about the car and its surroundings as possible. You might want to make it tougher to see the outside of the car, since from inside you can''t really tell whether your turn signals work or how bad a scratch is, but those are fairly minor considerations. I say any number of views is fine. That said, I like nothing better than playing GTA or True Crime in "face-scraping-the-pavement" view. It gives a heightened awareness of speed, which can be lost in the flying camera views.

I've never tried this but what happens if you render with a narrow projection and render the car, then rendered a wide projection and rendered the terrain?

Sliding: Yea, as I was saying about always facing up the road, if you started to slide to your left side the camera would turn to the left once your car has gone past 90 degrees and is begining to face backwards the camera would start to swing to the other side. This way the camera is always mostly looking either up or down the road. The camera would also have to bump around like your head does, even at moderate speeds. Have any of you ever slid a car? I have a handbrake in my Subaru and I find it necessary for many turns . Its fun, instantly raises your heartrate, and can sometimes be extremely disorienting. I think driving games are way to easy, no 12 year old should be able to pick up a controller and pull of some huge 200mph drift.

Also, is there a way to get a wide projection in only one axis? You would need a really wide X but not such a wide Y. Is that possible?

[edited by - honayboyz on December 29, 2003 1:03:36 AM]

quote: Original post by Anozireth
I find that in a lot of racing games there are situations where the car will be sliding sideway (ie powerslide), and if you are in first person view, it can be extremely difficult to tell exactly what the car is doing because you can only look directly forward, you can''t turn your head like you could in real life. Maybe if a racing game had a first person view that smoothed out bumps like your body naturally does and could somehow always point the camera in a logical direction, not just directly at the front of the car. I know that''s probably a lot easier said than done, but it''s just a thought.

And to expand on this, in a real driving situation, you can "feel" what the car is doing during a power-slide, in the game there really isn''t a good way to judge how far out your back wheels are sliding and/or if they are starting to catch or not, in this case the only way to tell is if you have a full view of the car (or at least most of the car). A first person view is alright if you can''t slide and can generally see over the dash-board well enough, but that limits the game way to much.


Also, tohonda boyz last post. Yes, powersliding with the e-brake is an essential part in a racing game, especially rally and/or street courses (well, more fun than essential in street courses). The problem is, in real life, you can feel you''reself spinning and can judge relatively easy (well, if you do it enough to know), the limits of your car, and how far it has slid out. In a game, it is MUCH harder to judge this, no matter what you with the view, since it''s your body feeling the horizontal pull rather than your vision judging. Well, it''s really a combination of both, but in game you only have your vision, which is relatively crappy in a car, with limited peripheral vision and no way to rapidly look in the direction you want. If you ever played a racing game, you know it''s much simpler to race with a 3rd person view, but with 1st person, it''s much more difficult, not because it''s really harder to drive from a first person (like in real life, it''s relatively easy), but in game you just don''t have the same feedback coming from the car that you would, hindering your ability to judge anything properly, so without the over-head, you really are at a bigger disadvantage than in real life.