You could just keep it real simple like they do in warhammer.
you have simple stats
Weapon Skill
Ballisic skill
Attacks
Wounds

In close combat characters WS is compared to his opponents WS that gives a target number, then roll dice equal to attack for each equal to or greater then the target number you score a hit. Each hit cause X damage based on the weapon and that number is subtracted from the opponets wounds.

Or if you prefer it could be a conteseted role. Both players roll dice equal to attack then added their WS skill to each die roll. Who ever scores the highest number hits the other.

when fighting many against one add a gang up bonus.

For ranged you have a base number such as 7 and apply modifers, based on terrain, enemy speed, cover, then subtract your BS from that number. That gives you a target number that must be rolled equal to greater then. A hit does X damage depending on the weapon subtracted from the enemies wounds.

Your charcters will diffrent stats depending on their job. An archer will have high BS and low WS while a soilder will Have a High BS and low WS. You could have a balanced character that is equal in both but strong in neither.

Or a character with poor WS but lots of wounds and attacks.

Its all up to you.

-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document

thanks a lot buddy
i will think it through...

this may be a little off topic, but i''ve always felt that ranged weapons are entirely too weak. there will be times when you''ll stand there firing arrow after arrow into your opponent, and he''ll keep advancing. one or two penetrating shots should do the trick, rather than having a melee character with two dozen arrows stuck into his body walk up to you and hack to you to bits as if there were nothing wrong.

In pen and paper RPGs for me, ranged is great for getting rid of attackers before they close - 1st and 2nd level characters can die easily in melee and it's best to do what you can to take out enemies before you go into hand to hand.

After that, ranged weapons don't do enough damage unless you're fighting many weak creatures and can take them out with one or two shots. Ranged weapons are best used to take out numbers, not weaken large creatures. At higher levels, bow weapons still do the same damage.

That's within the rule set of the game I play.

Now, for a computer game, you need a reason to upgrade the damage so that it's still effective to weaken the creature and still be able to end the melee quickly when the creature finally gets close.

There is also the problem of taking out many creatures. You can't nail more than one creature with an arrow (usually) so the extra damage from the arrow is wasted taking out one target - meanwhile, you still have a sizable group coming at you.

Hmm. Harder than I thought.

Increase the rate of fire? That would take out numbers and increase the overall damage done over time...

[edited by - Waverider on August 29, 2003 5:54:27 PM]

I think the solution is groupwork. Your melee can''t reach their ranged? Fire some artillery behind their ranged to cut off any retreat. Flank the enemy. Send in fast, mounted troups. Depends on the capability of the game, but I believe that you should be able to reach the enemy with melee if you utilize your group''s skills. Got magic? Cast slow or paralyze on the enemy troops.

thanks to everyone.

in a game, if ranged character or the ranged attack skill of the character is too strong, the battle will end before the melee happens. on the other hand, if melee character or skill is strong, ranged attack will have no meaning to exist.

so how to make both ranged attack and melee exist at the same time and wont damage the balance of the game? and both of them have fun

Sounds like a detail question of game balance rather than a high level design problem. If you want to know what numbers to assign to the melee and range fighters, then try using trial and error.

Try some numbers, see how far off the right balance you are, adjust and try again. Once you''ve got them about right, start testing alternate scenarios and such like. Sword should probably beat Bow in a cluttered region with lots of cover to advance through, but lose when having to approach along a narrow passage littered with caltrops. Try throwing multiple AI opponents in and see how different mixes affect the balance. Tweak until you''re happy. The right answer is going to be very heavily dependent upon the rest of your system.

I would expereiment. Try to find a perfect mix of range, damage and speed. You can have heavy damage ranged weapons if you make them a little slower. Speed and damage are most closley connected. Keep in mind that a guy with a spear can probaly get some easy distance between him and the archer. Longer weapons can balance this out.

Scott Simontis
e-mail:ageofscott@comcast.net
AIM:ssimontis