A couple of months ago or so, someone mentioned the idea of Creativity, while discussing skills. The idea was that someone that was really good at skill A and really bad in skill B, would be not so Creative, while someone that was good at both A and B would be more Creative, and would be rewarded in some way. Now, what are some smart ways to do this? In thinking about how to implement this in my RPG, I''ve come up with these thuoghts: Hrm, first a quick tour of my skill system Each of the 15 skills have five ranks, Novice, Apprentice, Practitioner, Expert, Master. When using a skill, you get a certain number of Training Points in that skill, and a number of XP. The amount of TPs in a skill affects how skillful you are, and when you reach a certain amount of TPs, you "move up a rank", which can bring some new abilities into play. XP can be converted into either TPs (probably by going to a trainer) in a skill, or (I think) you''ll be able to buy Feats (or Perks, as they are called in Fallout. Basically the idea is to give the character new abilites, or to specialize him/her in some cool way) for them. At certain "Total amount of gained XP"-levels, you gain 1 Feat Point, which you can buy Feats for, or save for later. Now, for the Creativity part: When all (or a certain percentage, I''m not sure about this) of your skills reach a certain Rank (i.e 80% of your skills are Novice or better), you recieve 2 Feat Points. You also recieve 100 XP. It is, in a way, a boring way to solve it. But still, it is a bonus for those who wish to play more, what''s-the-word, all-around good characters instead of maxing out Small Guns and Speech, to take a Fallout example. Can you think of any cooler ways to implement it? I''m pretty sure that I''ll do skill-combinations, i.e. if you are at rank R1 with skill S1, and rank R2 with skill S2, you''ll get some kind of bonus or ability that you couldn''t use if either of the skills had had a lower rank... But that doesn''t really have to do with creativity. Unless I also say that "you need these skills to be at these ranks, AND you need at least Creativity level 2".

First of all I like the idea! In all RPG''s i played (now playing gothic 2 which limits "Creativity" )i wanted my character to be "Jack of all trades".

But to get back on topic:
- i think the creativity should be represented not by an imaginary "level", but by real "perks" the player gets. To clarify:
-when the player has Bows at 4 and swords at 3 he would switch weapons much faster than a novice in both ( that idea came from playing gothic)
- If a spell need some reagents to be cast and the player has high alchemy - let him subsitute something else for the required reagent.
- a more modern example - driving and shooting if the player has both skills maxed out let him be able to "auto aim" while keeping the eye on the road.
I could give you more, but as I don''t know what skills you''ll have i can''t think of the ones that would suit the idea most.

Basically i would like to see the player rewarded for "creativity" by letting him do more things than just using the single skill. Those IMHO should come naturally, without the player getting a popup like "you can now drive and shoot at the same time". This would encourage experimentation , and give more fodder to the peeps on your game forum

Hope it helped
Ciehoo

Don''t know if its related or not, but the PS2 RPG Breath Of Fire Dragon Quarter rewards strategic thinking with Bonus experience points which can be allocated, or saved to be used with its SOL:Restart feature.

The game has a system is calls "PETS." (why is everything a system?) The way it works is it allows the usage of Trap items before combat, like meat or a bomb. Catching an enemy with that trap yields a percentage bonus when that enemy is killed. Then in combat there are a number of strategic conditions which you have to watch out for (like how much HP the characters lose, how many turns pass, the elemental weakness of each enemy.) The effect is that you get rewarded for being smart. Since the game is merciless, the bonus is well used.

As towards the more general rpg, theres always branching experience, like a successful Lock Pick has the effect of 10% of the experience going toward the Pincussion skill...

"Basically i would like to see the player rewarded for "creativity" by letting him do more things than just using the single skill."

Yeah, like I said when it feels natural, I''ll probably give the player additional abilities or bonuses of some sort, when two skills, such as driving and shooting BOTH reaches a certain level

Well, here are my skills (since you asked for it).
ranged combat - Pistols, Rifles, Heavy Weapons, Misc. Weapons, Aim
body - Unarmed Combat, Armed Combat, Endurance, Agility, Thievery
brain - Intelligence, Perception, Science, Communicate, Games

I''m thinking about rearranging them, maybe deleting some and adding some that makes more sense. But that isn''t the topic here, so...


"As towards the more general rpg, theres always branching experience, like a successful Lock Pick has the effect of 10% of the experience going toward the Pincussion skill... "

Yeah, I kinda want to put TPs into more than one skill at a time, because naturally whenever you perform something, you will use more than one skill.. I just have to come up with a good formula for it (which is already basically in my head, I just have to write it down and see if it looks alright).

For example, I want the character to be able to do a dive and shoot at the same time, Max Payne/Matrix/what-have-you style. Doing this would require a certain level of both Agility and Pistols (or maybe even rifles), AND give TPs back into both skills.
Maybe Perception shuold also be included in that example...


And wouldn''t it be really cool to allow the player to drive (btw it''s supposed to be a topdown/isometric game but in a 3D engine)... but probably way too hard to implement in a feasible way

Oh, and you probably understand it from my skill list (which I am changing as I''m writing this) it''s a modernistic or slightly futuristic RPG..

The problem is that most games basically penalize someone for taking multiple skill paths. The game expects you to take one path and be an expert at it. Thats why you can''t be anything but an expert in the basic skill....if you try to multi path you end up being mediocre in both paths and being gimped...so what needs to be done is to implement a system that works towards mulipaths more.

lol

Exactly

And Creativity is just that kinda system.

What i would like to see is something where (just using fantasy here as an example) if you wanted to spec magic and swordsman ship..one or the other, or both would bend to work with the other.

Example lets take magic, and Swords.
A true Swordsman would easily defeat a MageKnight in a sword on sword duel. And by the same tactic a True Wizard would easily toast a MageKnight in a magic duel. However A mage knight won''t use Magic only against a wizard, and a he won''t use just swordmanship skill against a Swordsman. He''s going to use the two together which is what gives him his power. He doesn''t have long range fireball spells, he most likely has buffs for himself, short range shouts for foes infront of him, PBAOE spells for enemies around him, all of which are either going to augment his damage, Or disorient his foes. Another note is he will probably be able to wield magical power through his sword, shield, and armor, so that he does not have to go through complex hand gestures while fighting...Thus putting him on equal footing with a true expert in either field.

Just remember in your system the old saying that a Jack of all trades is a master of none.

That doesn't mean you can't implement a system where skill combination provides new advantages. Such as Magic and smithing allowing you to create magic weapons. However you don't want a situation where a player can have every skill maxed out.

[edited by - TechnoGoth on July 15, 2003 7:50:27 PM]

" However you don''t want a situation where a player can have skill maxed out. "

Umm, what do you mean?


robert4818, I''m not quite sure what you mean.. it almost sounds like you''re saying that there isn''t a need for such a system because it is by definition almost better to be diverse. That''s in a way how it SHOULD be, but that kinda thing is difficult to implement, without using some kind of creativity bonuses.. IMO

Well what I was saying was that people who take the multiple skill sets the skills SHOULD be able to blend together, Not so much as a BONUS, but more of the way the skills work together...Not sure how you would implement it, but I think it would be a cool idea. I think bonus''s have a place also. When you have two in compatable skills together...(Imagine guns and Lock pick) you might be able to use one skill as a bonus together...(use pick lock skill to unjam a gun) while other skills that can concievably be used together actually blend thier stuff together more than actually a bonus...