I just read the article and everyone''s comments and I think I need to say something. Seeing as how this is a Java forum, I''m probably wasting my time, but here it goes.

The article mentions several "advantages" java has over C++:

>> No need to remember to deallocate data - so there are no memory leaks.<<

Garbage collection can be done in C++. Write garbage collection routines once and then forget about it. However, a good programmer should be able to remember to deallocate memory.

>>A library of easy-to-use objects, such as strings, lists, and queues. C++ has STL but STL is not integrated well with most libraries so C-style strings are still needed a lot.<<

C++ is now standardized. The STL implementations will only continue to get better and faster and more programmers will use it. C-style strings are hardly needed unless you''re doing a lot of string manipulation at speed critical times... but how often is that?

>>Forget all about pointers. Java does not support them. In fact, Java uses protected references so you cannot make references to illegal data<<

Why would you want to forget about pointers? Sure, they can be dangerous if you don''t know how to use them, but they are very powerful and very useful.

>>Java is a much simpler language. C++ is getting bigger and bigger and strange details keeps popping up that I never cared about. Java has a very clean syntax and no strange details. <<

This argument holds absolutely *no* weight because you failed to mention what "strange" details you are referring to. Please tell us.

>>I have read articles boasting about productivity gains of about 40% by using Java over C++. I am not sure about these numbers, but it true that Java increases your productiveness both by increasing code writing speed but also by reducing the number of bugs.<<

Bugs occur in every language. So far, the only thing Java has going for it is its cross platform compatibility, and garbage collection. Both can be done in C++ easily (and you get the speed that comes with C++).

Real speed in development comes with code reuse. This is something that the game industry needs to realize... Stop remaking the graphics engine for every game you make!


Java is still in its infancy. Perhaps in years to come Java will become more suited for game development than other languages and I will make the transfer. However, C++ has so much going for it, so that day is far off in the distance.

I thought that article was pretty good. I heard something about Java 2. I was wondering if anyone knew what it is, and how it is different from regular Java?

t2sherm ô¿ô

What r u guys arguing about? Everything is good for its purpose. Java, C and C++ have completely different purposes. Even C and C++ are completely different in a sense that the architecture of your applications is nowhere near the same. Java is mostly good for web-based application, server side web application, or truly protable GUI applications. There are other uses, but writing games is not one of them. C++ on the other hand sucks at some things where Java kicks ass, but C++ surves its purpose for games way better then Java.

I am not prejudiced. The game I''m working on now, I wrote part of the server on Java, because it seemed to be a good solution. But writing games on Java just because "Java is superior", or because u''re a fanatic is simply stupid.

I like DOS batch files and Quick BASIC. I use it all the time.
Script files are also great, but nothing''s better than the FTP prompt. At the moment I''m using this for pentium optimizing my initialization procs.
I''m planning on using Perl for supporting multiple 3D gfx accellerators, when using my SQL optimized pahtfinding.
I used to do animations with Cobol, but framerate was too high...

quote: Original post by t2sherm

I thought that article was pretty good. I heard something about Java 2. I was wondering if anyone knew what it is, and how it is different from regular Java?

t2sherm ô¿ô

Java2 is Sun''s brand name for their current implementation of java. It started with version 1.2.2 and includes the newest version of java, 1.3. Yes, 1.3 *is* Java2. It confused the hell out of me until I thought about what my company''s marketing dept. does on a daily basis (shudder).

So, as far as I know:
Java2 == Sun''s JDK/JRE v. 1.2 through JDK/JRE v. 1.3

ManaSink

quote: Original quote from the article

If a game is written in Java you could probably cut of half a year which would cut production costs and bring the game onto an earlier market, which means that it will sell better.

That sounds like quite a stretch.

Why does everyone assume that developing in Java is so much quicker than developing in C++? I''m perfectly productive in C++. Being experienced in it, I know the pitfalls and I know how to avoid them. Java is a fine langauge, but it''s irritating how arrogant people get about how much more productive it is.

Use whatever you like, but don''t complain about how bad C++ users attitudes are when you seem to have just as bad an attitude.

--TheGoop

You seem to be confusing your personal productivity in creating code with the productivity of the entire development process (including debugging and testing with the involvement of more than one developer). The reason so many of us take the position that Java is many times more productive as a development platform than C++ is because it has been proven in independent studies...

One such article is here…

http://java.sun.com/features/1998/07/efficiency.html

If you research I am sure you will find many more.

Well, I can write a program in Visual Basic faster than Java or C++, but that doesn''t necessarly mean the programming language is better. It COULD be said (not by me tho ) that C++ is generally intended more for experts, and it takes much longer for novices/intermediates to write/debug C++ software, while Java is written for novices/intermediates so it is easier for them produce software. Now, I am NOT saying this is the case, just playing devil''s advicate. Personally, I use C++ for my applications/games, but I couldn''t say which programming language is better (and I''m sure they both have their pluses/minuses) because I haven''t used very much Java. I must say that I''m somewhat turned off by the lack of pointers in Java. Pointers have SO many uses I couldn''t even begin to imagine writing a program without them. I will give Java users one point tho, the lack of a C++ string class is a pain.

that''s just because you already know pointers. I''ve never used them and quite simply I can''t imagine the need for them. Some C++ stuff though I would like, that template thing sounds good and multiple inheritance would be nice if implemented correctly. Though living without gabage collection and some of the messy systax seems impossible. Oh well I guess I''m going to have to learn C++... too bad. Maybe this C# thing will liberate us from the weaknesses of java and C++. Too bad someone else didn''t come out with the same thing last year. I still think C* would be cooler as a name. Maybe someday I''ll make my own language with java syntax and the power of C++ and I''ll just call it D. We''ve been on C long enough.

Seems to me that the present C++ programmers are whining about the same thing C programmers whined about when C++ came to be. The tables have turned and now Java is in style. So if you are arguing speed, etc. you may be just reiterating arguements which went against C++ and now using it for it. Seems like that to me.

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A wise man once said "A person with half a clue is more dangerous than a person with or without one."

Edited by - ImmaGNUman on June 23, 2000 5:22:54 PM