Diodor
I am 100% behind you on this one, but do you notice how unkown most of the titles you mention seem to be (as in, you must be the only one beside me to mention something like ADOM as a *reference* game in these boards).

Before we try to make new games we need to educate ourselves on what''s around ! That''s what I have always done on this board with my habit of "Uh, yeah, that was done in this 10 years old title, sorry to debunk your *original* idea".
I wonder how many people here actually know of Diplomacy, for instance.
And that''s just one classic (because it *is* a classic of strategy games, trust me on that one).
Imagine the computer games we could come up with if we decided to make online versions of cool board games (and try to keep the values that make those board games interesting in the first place, simply using the board as a background picture isn''t it).

Maybe it would be nice to have a list of *non computer* games in the reference section.
How many people know of the Civilisation board game (IIRC, it was there before the computer game), Diplomacy, Galactic Encounter, countless hex wargames, Abalone, Jenga (yeah, OK, Jenga doesnt make any sense on a computer, but my point is, it''s a reference, and we, as wannabe game developers, should *know* such classics).

It would be nice if mods could tell me how feasible that would be (to make a nice reference list) ?

Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !

It''s sad, but until I interested my friends in Diplomacy, I was the only one who knew anything about the Civilization board game, Diplomacy, or the other classic boardgames. (Stratego is long-forgotten. Sad.) We really need a list like this - I''d volunteer to help put it together.

quote:
Original post by ahw

I am 100% behind you on this one, but do you notice how unkown most of the titles you mention seem to be (as in, you must be the only one beside me to mention something like ADOM as a *reference* game in these boards).

Unknown is a relative term. How many seven figures budgeted games only a few years old are never mentioned at all? Besides, the shareware developer can live with a _much_ smaller audience than the big companies.

quote:
I wonder how many people here actually know of Diplomacy, for instance.
And that''s just one classic (because it *is* a classic of strategy games, trust me on that one).

I didn''t until a few days ago either (when Critical_Waste linked to a site with a commented demonstrative Diplomacy game). Now I''m reading articles about it, and I''m addicted to this game without ever having played it or even fully understanding the rules. I''m honestly surprised it doesn''t have a larger impact. I mean, these guys are seriously studying Sun Tzu, Machiavelli and Clausewitz to better their Diplomacy play.

quote:
Imagine the computer games we could come up with if we decided to make online versions of cool board games (and try to keep the values that make those board games interesting in the first place, simply using the board as a background picture isn''t it).

Diplomacy teaches amazing and fundamental lessons. Notwithstanding, the study of non-computer board games will at the very least yield gameplay solutions that are very easy to understand by the player, which would be very useful to make game rules transparent.

Edward Ropple :
well, preaching in the desert is hard, but once in a while you get people interested. I did that when I played Legend of the Five Rings while every one else was playing Magic. Soon enough, I had a good following and to this day the shop owner still carries the line

Stratego was brilliant, and a nice way to get interested in something like Chess, without the headache and the lack of fun (Chess is anything but fun, I am sorry). I absolutely adored the bluff, it was just hilarious to send a lonely peon forward on his own, and my opponent would totally freak out thinking it was a bomb, assuming I couldnt be as crazy as to send a piece to certain death... LOL

Here''s a brilliant game that would be hard to translate on a PC (well, maybe not, but that''s why I suggest it) : ! (I dont link to the official site, since it''s a French game)

Sancte Isidore ora pro nobis !

Actually quite a few of the type of games you talk of are available for download on the Zdim''s site, conincidentaly it includes Formula PC which is a PC version of Formule de

http://digital-eel.com/zdim/best2.htm

And the host digital-eel make games that could be called scratchware. Investigate.

quote: Original post by LtKicker
Games are meant to be easy to learn, hard to master and companies forgotten the easy to learn part of the game.

How does any of that help with scratchware? How does a custom console just for playing admittedly simple games make sense as a consequence of the preceding? People already have PCs that can play games; there are three consoles battling it out on the market that can play games - why exactly are you offering the consumer a fourth, with games that are guaranteed to not be as visually impressive or visceral because, by your own admission, they''re simple?

I respect your beliefs and your right to them, but this is about consumer behavior. I''ve seen nothing to suggest that you can push dated gaming technology to consumers who have affordable access to modern alternatives (the GameCube is under $150, PCs and cell phones are everywhere).

The term scratchware is annoying, since I haven''t seen a proper definition..

What is scratchware, isn''t it just shareware? produced by tiny teams and to high quality standards. And with a more aggressive strategy to get the players to want to buy it.

I think Scratchware is a great idea. I also think communism is a great idea. Unfortunately neither will ever really work the way it''s supposed to. People who write the games will think hey, if I sell my game for $5-6 then people will buy it because it''s so cheap! but the shopper will have thoughts of his own... hmmm, this game is really cheap and I''ve never heard of it before. It must not be that great. I''d rather spend my $5 on some Taco Bell. At least that''s what I''d think. I know I should no better, and I do. The problem is that 1 out of maybe 30 of those games would actually be fun and worth buying. That ends up costing $150 for that one game. I''d much rather download the 30 games and then just erase the crappy ones, keeping the one gem. If I really like it I can send the author $5-10.... hey, where have I seen this approach before.....? Oh, yeah, it''s called shareware, what a great idea!

About pricing: I have read in more than one place that increasing the price can often increases sales. There''s little point in selling even a simple shareware game for $5. Such a choice is very likely losing money.

quote: Original post by Diodor
No, we don''t need a revolution. Let the giants churn out clones. Let us make games.

Well put. I couldn''t agree more