Eh, well, there's the episodic dot-hack series. Those games are around 20 hours long, max- considered very short for an RPG- and still cost the full $50. People are buying them... why lower prices? (Admittantly, those are console games, which are a somewhat different market. But I think the point stands.)

An idea for a superior distribution network might be a 'just in time' (think MP3.com or CafePress) shop for indie games. This would be tricky to attract customers to, but a blessing for developers once it got off the ground. The sheer ease of hawking your wares on the two sites I mentioned can be seen by the mountains of crap present on them- yet they still have plenty of great products and can turn a profit.

[edited by - Sakuranbo on June 16, 2003 11:15:38 PM]

The answer to this whole problem is to lower the stupid stupid standards for pro quality modern games.

Almost everyone here wants to make an A title, thats like little indie rockers/punk rockers trying to be the next Britanny Spears. They wouldn''t do that, because: A. it would sound horrible and B. They wouldn''t want to do it because they are expressing themselves and defying commercialism. Indiegames need to become Punk Rock games not wannabe-bland-overproduced-disco garbage games like almost everyone makes (check out garagegames.com featured games).

Video games are screaming for a revolution. Anarchy on the PC!

quote:
Original post by Ketchaval

customer trust: will the customer trust a random internet site with their credit-card details?

Yes, obviously... Well, not exactly, but you don''t handle the transaction, you use a reseller like regnow.com This isn''t just a random internet site, it has all sorts of security. Trust also depends on how professional your site looks.

quote:
word of mouth / press. Do indie games get reviewed or considered in Monthly publications like PC Zone, and PC Gamer?

Word of mouth is free for all, (this is how I''ve heard of Uplink). Indie games get reviewed, but not necessarily in the same publications and sites that focus on A titles (check www.nbsd.de - Smugglers 2 and TV Manager have some links to review sites).

I say, forget scratchware, we already have shareware. As a gamer, I''m sick and tired of A titles. Strategy games with huge technology trees, hundreds of unit types and buildings and hard to learn game mechanics. RPG games that think taking away 40 hours of my life is a measure of the game''s quality. Feature bloat has become a holy grail.

I give the game five minutes. If I don''t have fun in that time, I turn it off. I''ve recently played Triplane Turmoil. I think it has 320x200 graphics, yet it was an incredibly fun game. Do A titles get that good? No, they can''t live without 3d graphics. The brilliant Uplink. The incredibly hard Aargon Deluxe puzzle game. The very fun Dope Wars. The great Stick Soldiers and the proffessional Soldat (both sidescroller shooters - eat your heart out Quake). The solid strategy game Slay (to prove you don''t need complex rules for complex gameplay).

Even the best hardcore games I''ve played were indie: VGA Planets - with no graphics and the most clunky user interface I ever saw - but at the same time the best space conquest game ever. ADOM - with ASCII based graphics and incredibly rich gameplay - the best RPG. Judging by the articles about it, the best game in the world isn''t even a computer game (although it can be played by email very easily): Diplomacy started out as a 40 page rule book.

Cut your costs by a factor of a thousand, increase the amount you earn from a single sold copy by a factor of 10, increase the lifetime of your product by another 10, you get a profitable shareware product.

No, we don''t need a revolution. Let the giants churn out clones. Let us make games.

I''ve seen this sort of thing several times, but have never seen the author take any note of market demand.

I think that a blending of episodic titles and genre changing would work well.. Also if you have a micro budget, i.e. $10,000 perhaps holding a contest at a multimedia college with a prize of $1,000 and mention of their work in the game. Have the contestents present a portfolio, which also gives them the opportunity to prove they can provide good content in the required format.

Then when you finish one game, rather than simply reusing the graphics for another game, recycle them into a new genre that adds to the story line. This gives you the ability to maximize the lifetime of graphics without looking too ''low-rent''. It also adds to the enjoyment of people if you can design a good story line, and you could then release a new title integrating aspects of multiple games, which, if you code everything well from the get go, could result in three products for the cost of 2 (plus a little code and story development to merge stuff properly).

For a small team of developers, say 3-5 people the opportunities abound. In terms of what scratchware can be though, search the forums for HazardBall; it is the authors ''Tech Demo'' but once a few more bugs are hammered out, it would stand on its own.

Unfortunatly I think a model such as this is past its time. The amount of resources that it takes to create a ''commercial'' game are far too high for your average indie developer (and those that can get picked up by publishers). I just don''t think the buyer base is there for selling indie games in stores and still seeing a return.

quote: Original post by Sakuranbo
An idea for a superior distribution network might be a ''just in time'' (think MP3.com or CafePress) shop for indie games. This would be tricky to attract customers to, but a blessing for developers once it got off the ground. The sheer ease of hawking your wares on the two sites I mentioned can be seen by the mountains of crap present on them- yet they still have plenty of great products and can turn a profit.

This idea I like...a lot. Most other creative outlets have a site similar to this: artists, musicians, writers, etc. The closest we come is sourceforge and thats not geared towards the game developer. I would have no problem paying a small monthly fee for a little webspace to show off my work on a site dedicated to games (I think offering it free would dilute the waters with people who aren''t quite serious and just clutter things up). They could perhaps provide a secure way of selling your game and also run reviews, highlights and articles not necessarily on just game development but on the developers games that they''re hosted. Kind of similar to how planetquake used to be for mod developers but not quite are general purpose.

quote: Original post by Oluseyi
No. Well, I should say rarely. Like once in 3 months there will be a little sidebar that reviews some indie title or personal project, usually negatively. Mods get much better coverage from these publications. I mean, there''s no possibility of kickbacks and free product of value from indie projects, so it''s not fiscally profitable.

To be fair, this is more of a reflection on the bad state of gaming press. However, Edge has given both of PomPom''s games good reviews, so obviously its possible.

ScratchWare is a cool idea. I would like the ability for a person who truly loves games to be able to make his comercial game. The main problem is like said is resources. What if some company though were to create a console system devoted to playing simple cheap and fun games. The base fo its design is just a normal cd player. This has enough power to play retro games and allow the price for the system to be approximately $20 or less depending on what you do. The controls for this system would contist of a control stick capable of detecting 8 directions and center, then a primary, secondary and menu button. Then the graphics systems would be a bit above the original Super Mario Brothers. The goal of this system is to provide a basis for games that aren''t meant to be "State of the Art". Its meant for games that are simple easy to play, not hard on your wallet and are fun. Check out "http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/topic.asp?topic_id=163287" for an article I have wrote on the topic of making games simpler not more complicated.

quote: Original post by LtKicker
ScratchWare is a cool idea.

Actually, it''s not. It fails to really consider the financial reality of the games marketplace or the discriminants of the vast majority of consumers. Like it or not, most people are perfectly happy having "crap", big-budget, A-list games pushed at them. There''s a reason the bargain bin is called a "bin."

quote: What if some company though were to create a console system devoted to playing simple cheap and fun games.

Who''d buy it? I mean, $20 or not, that''s another device jostling for time and prominence and space next to your tv, in your power strip... more controllers...

It''s cheaper to write your retro/classic/simple games for a Dreamcast. Lots of people already have them.

I have to disagree. Complicated games while currently in control of the market are devoted to a specific and small audience when compared to the rest of the world. Simple games are meant to grab a general audience. Being a christrian I believe that simplicity is truly what we want. Simplicity in games allows us to bring concepts in gameplay that any one can understand and play. I''m not saying simple nothing to them. It just that in simple games, every action added to the game is meant to make it easier to play not to complicate it. You could have tons of actions and abilities in your game but each of them has to simplify gameplay. Games are meant to be easy to learn, hard to master and companies forgotten the easy to learn part of the game. Also graphics are getting out of hand. The only reason graphics exist is to allow us to understand our enviroment. Your game can successfully do that without 3-d graphics and 32 bit imagery. All the people care about is that game is fun. The only reason why people buy the crap they buy is because they don''t simple games are fun. If your willing to have the strength and courage that is required to make it past that first block you will become an extremely successful and have enough money to live off of for the rest of your lifetime. Remember starting a simple thing is hard but is the most succccessful in the end.