Have you ever played the game Zombie Smashers X? I don't remember the website, but it was an cartoony indy game programmed by some kid, based on the River City Ransom series. Anyway, it has several ideas similar to the game you have proposed. You start out as some weak punk kid fighting zombies, with only a few moves. As you gain money, your character gets tattoos and eats junk food to learn new moves and gain stats. It was a really fun game. My favorite move was the one where you tear out the zombies heart and eat it to regain health.

I just found that link: http://www.totallyscrewed.net/

Anyway, back on topic, the concepts of getting into fights and sitting down and playing a video game are pretty mutually exclusive in my opinion. No video game I have played yet has accurately simulated getting punched in the jaw, or the exhiliration I associate with dotting some asshole between the eyes. I would rather head down to my kung fu class, than play a game based on kung fu.

[edited by - the_dannobot on April 24, 2003 2:57:54 PM]

Hey tom what''s up? Look I don''t have anything constructive to say about the idea, I just wanted to tell you not to let the trolls on this board get you down. There are some very smart and inciteful people here. It''s just this is spring so the Trolls must be mating and multiplying or something. Anyways if your serious about it, it would be nice to see a worked out design-doc on this.

BTW everyone: where are all these trolls coming from and when will they disable Anonymous Posters?

Here''s my knowledge of "real life" fighting:
1. If you get kicked in the head, you WILL either fall uncouncious or (more probably) die.
2. If you get hit a shoulder from above, the shoulder bone WILL break, so your arm will be useless.
3. If you get hit in the stomach, you WILL get stunned.
4. If you hit a person in the head with your fist (apart from the eyes, mouth, ears, and um.. that place behind the eyes where the bone is much thinner*), you will probably hurt yourself more than you hurt him.
5. If you fall on your stomach, you''re dead meat on a dull stick. It is impossible to fight back from that position, you cannot get up quickly, and you expose your back.
6. It is very easy to make a one hit kill in the following spots: Head (Especially the in.. um.. those spots..), Solar Plexus (Where the ribs start joining in the middle. This is a central nerve spot), Groin (More fatal than one might think, and if not, very "disabling"), The-chain-of-bones-that-you-can-feel-in-the-back-of-your-torso-and-that-links-the-head-with-the-hips*, Neck.
7. High kicks (And especially sweeping ones), despite looking good, are slow, clumsy, not-so-hard-hitting, easy to avoid/counter, and leave you defenceless for a rather long while.
8. 30 sec. throws (like the fancier ones in "standard" fighting games) don''t work. Your opponent will do everything to avoid getting throwed, so you have to take him/her by surprise and/or sheer force. If you can''t pull off a throw in less than 2 sec. your opponent will already have punched the life out of you.

*: Since english is not my native language, I have no idea what this word is. Please do fill me in.

--------------------------------------------
What happens once will never happen again.
However, what happens twice will most certainly happen again.

I take Wing Chun Kung Fu, and know quite a bit about fighting. My style is based mostly based on body mechanics, so we learn quite a lot about this kind of stuff.

1. Absolutly true. Don't get kicked in the head. Unless you are on the ground, you should never get kicked in the head. It takes to long to move a foot from the ground to the head, so you should have lots and lots of time to react. If you are on the ground, try to position your body and your feet between you and your opponent.
2. It depends on what you get hit on the shoulder with. A downward blow from someones fist will probably not be strong enough to break the bone. A direct hit straight into the soft part of the armpit is much more effective.
3. Yup. If you are hit anywhere correctly, you will get stunned.
4. Not true at all. Punching a person in the face is a rather effective technique. In wing chun, we use a technique called a soft palm that is very effective for striking hard parts of the body, like the skull.
5. True. If you are falling face first, flip onto your back or side before you hit the ground.
6. You missed several effective targets: The throat, floating ribs, the soft spot right under the front of the chin, and the bone directly behind the ear (occipital bone) all come to mind. (The chain of bones is known as the spine in english.)
7. YES!!! I laugh my ass of when I play a fighting game and see the huge jumping-spin-kicks to the head. High kicks are laughable weak in real life, and throw the person way off balance. When a person tries to high kick, you can usually walk up to them and push them to ground before their kick is even halfway to the target.
8. Yes. Throws have to be quick and dirty. Joint locks are usually used to get a person to the ground. Many police forces use these to subdue suspects.

I used to play fighting games all the time. Since I started taking kung fu, I have almost no desire to play fighting games that involve hand to hand combat. Its kind of frustrating, since many of the fighters use moves that in real life would be weak of ineffective. I know, its just a game, but no one will ever connect with a jumping-spin-heel-kick to the top of the head.

On a side note: The trolls do seem to have been getting worse lately. The best thing is to just ignore them.

"Willow, use the wand on that troll!"

[edited by - the_dannobot on April 25, 2003 11:41:59 AM]

Any Jackie Chan/Jet Li fans here?

I''ve worked on an ever growing design (my very first design BTW) for a fighting game which will strive to mix the quick fun that common fighting games provide with accurate fighting techniques for the more serious fighting experts for two-hit combo into a sci-fi universe.

Titled Horror Masters: Universal Championship, a name which denotes the seriousness of the fighting as well as the Sci-fi aspects. In the game, only a couple of humans will be fighting to save their world, along with alien races from other worlds in the universe which are in the process of being taken over by a conquering legion of space warriors.

In the game, players will have the flashy fighting that most fighting games allow, as well as very technicly accurate fighting styles based on realistic abilities of all the characters which will resemble many common fighting techniques and their respective damaging effects. Of course, the typical special powers and long range attacks will be presentable as well as weapons.

Taking a look at both angles:

The Flashy Side: Special Effects, over the top moves which look good more than they really hit, massive combo chains, massive size differentials, weapons which slice, bash, and fly through the air at their targets.

The Technical Side: Realistic Blocking and Maneuvering Techniques in ''FULL'' 3D, accurate attacks designed to target key damage areas, unpredictability amongst attacks as well as alternate methods of performing similar attacks, full interaction with the arenas and those who inhabit them.

In these ways, both technical and flashy fighting, mixed with all sorts of interesting elements which will add to a more creative gameplay experience, will make for the best fighting game around.

The characters, storylines, logical details, basic rule set and overall game mechanics have already been taken care of (about 5 solid years of redeveloping the mechanics of the ideas which the game will use too). I just need a great team (and probably alot of cash from what everyone else says ) to help refine and provide further detail, as well as help construct the actual game, and it shall rule all!!!!<br><br>Anywho…. <img src="tongue.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle><br><br>I loved Fight Club as well, not &#111;nly the realistic fighting but mainly the meaning behind the story it tells.<br><br>As for what does damage and what doesn''t? Anything which provides any measurable amount of force to another will produce a similar measure of damage between the two. As for me, though I can hold my own with my upper body strength, I''m more effective with my legs any day! Oh, and I wrestle too, a great show of technicality IMHO.<br><br>And no, I''m not a troll by any means… If you see any, send them my way and I''ll sufficate them with my foot down their gullet! <img src="wink.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle><br><br> - Christopher Dapo ~ Ronixus<br><br>"Not too fantasy, not too real, just all fun!"<br>

quote: Original post by the_dannobot
I used to play fighting games all the time. Since I started taking kung fu, I have almost no desire to play fighting games that involve hand to hand combat. Its kind of frustrating, since many of the fighters use moves that in real life would be weak of ineffective. I know, its just a game, but no one will ever connect with a jumping-spin-heel-kick to the top of the head.

So I take it you don''t watch most movies with martial arts in them also? You definitely don''t watch cartoons or anime or read comic books. Like you said this is kind of a ridiculous position because fighting games are just games, but beyond that most fighting games have more in common with anime and kung fu movies than anything in reality. Hell, plenty of fighting game characters aren''t even human. You could say this with almost any genre, I mean do you get mad because you can run at 30-50 miles per hour and take a rocket to the head and live in your average FPS or build a tank in 30 seconds in an RTS or because the Sims don''t act like real people do?

A fight club game would be cool, not so much the fighting aspect alone (there is better stuff out there to base a pure fighting game on), but because of the whole split personality thing, the civil unrest\terrorism stuff, etc. I''d actually like to see it as a more open ended adventure game type thing with the fighting being a major part (moreso than, Shen Mue for example.)

quote:
So I take it you don't watch most movies with martial arts in them also? You definitely don't watch cartoons or anime

You're right. I dont watch TV at all. I'm too busy trying to write video games and practicing kung fu. Before this turns into a flame war, I gues I should probably clarify my statement: Realistic hand-to-hand fighting games for the most part hold no interest for me, since I partake in real hand-to-hand combat on a regular basis. Other types of fighting games, such as games that involve weapons or big energy attacks(DBZ Budokan was fun) I can still play.

Your idea of a fighting/adventure game does sound cool though. It would be cool if the game could lead up the fight, rather than the standard fight1, fight2, fight3, boss, of most fighting games.

[edited by - the_dannobot on April 25, 2003 5:13:01 PM]

Ok, then you must start off as Wimp Lo, and work your way up to being the Choosen One.

quote: Original post by Input_iPPie
Here''s my knowledge of "real life" fighting:
1. If you get kicked in the head, you WILL either fall uncouncious or (more probably) die.
2. If you get hit a shoulder from above, the shoulder bone WILL break, so your arm will be useless.
3. If you get hit in the stomach, you WILL get stunned.
4. If you hit a person in the head with your fist (apart from the eyes, mouth, ears, and um.. that place behind the eyes where the bone is much thinner*), you will probably hurt yourself more than you hurt him.
5. If you fall on your stomach, you''re dead meat on a dull stick. It is impossible to fight back from that position, you cannot get up quickly, and you expose your back.
6. It is very easy to make a one hit kill in the following spots: Head (Especially the in.. um.. those spots..), Solar Plexus (Where the ribs start joining in the middle. This is a central nerve spot), Groin (More fatal than one might think, and if not, very "disabling"), The-chain-of-bones-that-you-can-feel-in-the-back-of-your-torso-and-that-links-the-head-with-the-hips*, Neck.
7. High kicks (And especially sweeping ones), despite looking good, are slow, clumsy, not-so-hard-hitting, easy to avoid/counter, and leave you defenceless for a rather long while.
8. 30 sec. throws (like the fancier ones in "standard" fighting games) don''t work. Your opponent will do everything to avoid getting throwed, so you have to take him/her by surprise and/or sheer force. If you can''t pull off a throw in less than 2 sec. your opponent will already have punched the life out of you.

quote: Original post by the dannobot
I feel I have to pipe up on a few combat related things:

1. Absolutly true. Don''t get kicked in the head. Unless you are on the ground, you should never get kicked in the head. It takes to long to move a foot from the ground to the head, so you should have lots and lots of time to react. If you are on the ground, try to position your body and your feet between you and your opponent.
2. It depends on what you get hit on the shoulder with. A downward blow from someones fist will probably not be strong enough to break the bone. A direct hit straight into the soft part of the armpit is much more effective.
3. Yup. If you are hit anywhere correctly, you will get stunned.
4. Not true at all. Punching a person in the face is a rather effective technique. In wing chun, we use a technique called a soft palm that is very effective for striking hard parts of the body, like the skull.
5. True. If you are falling face first, flip onto your back or side before you hit the ground.
6. You missed several effective targets: The throat, floating ribs, the soft spot right under the front of the chin, and the bone directly behind the ear (occipital bone) all come to mind. (The chain of bones is known as the spine in english.)
7. YES!!! I laugh my ass of when I play a fighting game and see the huge jumping-spin-kicks to the head. High kicks are laughable weak in real life, and throw the person way off balance. When a person tries to high kick, you can usually walk up to them and push them to ground before their kick is even halfway to the target.
8. Yes. Throws have to be quick and dirty. Joint locks are usually used to get a person to the ground. Many police forces use these to subdue suspects.

I feel I have to pipe up about my own experiences in combat training. I left out any numbers that I had nothing to add to.

1. It takes a trained fighter to give a good kick in the head. Edward Norton wouldn''t likely kick me unconscious with one try, for example. Dizzy is the minimum, but to say you have to go knockout is nonsense. I know this because I''ve take a full kick to the head myself and didn''t go unconscious.

3. If you get hit unexpectedly yes. If you tighten your abs and you have strong ones, you can take some punishment on the stomach without more than bruises.

4. As the other said, punches on the head, even by an untrained person are very effective... especially when in the face.

6. One hit kills don''t happen nearly as easily as they show it to be. Children seasoned from youngs on in full contact martial arts ussually grow up to be brutal enough to take several kicks to the head and possibly more than one hit at one of these ''fatal'' spots from a proffesional. My personal opinion is that one hit kills are somewhat legendary but don''t hold a lot of truth for anyone but the extreme specialists.

7. Can we all say low kicks or no kicks? High kicks are pretty, but it ends there.

The word you were looking for is ''spinal cord''.

Yes, the majority of movie making and games have very very lousy fighting that looks pretty, especially chinese kung fu movies that use the philosophy "If you can kung fu you can fly"

BTW: I honestly think an ultra-realistic fighting game would become unfun. Just make all the moves realistic and do it on HP and you''re already incredibly far.

Not to make things too complicated. But as boxing is a hobby of mine, i can add this. fighting is a "calorie count", when fighting someone of equal skill, and without that lucky punch landing, the fight comes down to who is in the better shape. once you have run out of steam, you are effectively a punching bag. you limbs become like lead weights, your blows completely ineffective, you normally expose your jaw to take deep breaths, and that is about the time, someone puts your lights out. so i would set up an energy meter, whether the player sees an actuall meter or his character just becomes exhausted in appearance, is completely up to you. but using a system like this, each character would have a completely different strategy to make him effective, a larger opponent would have less speed and energy, so would have to deliver more effective blows. whereas the smaller opponent has an immense amount of speed and energy, but deals out less damage, and is extremely hard to hit. just an idea, love to hear what you think.

.:Sentry:.
"A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, so drink deeply, or not at all from the paerian spring."