I think that everything in this realm can be mathmaticly explained through simple geometric representation. Existance is like a closed polygon/circle on a huge endless spiral, made of several points. It takes the 4th dimention to create the 3rd dimention and the 3rd dimention to create the 2nd... The higher dimentions create the smaller dimentions and the smaller dimentions reflect the ideas of the higher dimentions -- depending on the interpretation of the one viewing. A picture may be made by an artist trying to make a point, but the artist makes several points with a picture that only others can see because of different views because the picture is actually several points aranged by the higher dimentional power. "God" is of the 4th dimention but he is different than the 3rd dimentional interpretation of him just like a 2d anime is different from the 3d counterpart. Energy and Time are the 5th and 6th dimentions for they have nothing to do with space, but how space is to be interpreted. The question now is which is higher on the hiarchy? I believe that Energy is the 6th dimention because without energy, time wouldn''t be perceived. Just like you can draw a percivable 3d object on a 2d surface, so can we interpert time in 3d space. (Making it possable that 2d can interpert time as well, but only with still instances like in comic books.) Of course there is the possability that only we interpert this, but until proven otherwise I''m going on some assumptions based on our dimentions pattern of perception. What do you think?

>> Energy is the 6th dimention because without energy, time wouldn''t be perceived

Paradoxically, without time one can''t perceive energy.

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Original post by Buster
>> Energy is the 6th dimention because without energy, time wouldn't be perceived

Paradoxically, without time one can't perceive energy.

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Ever tried to perceive space without time or vice versa?

Most models of our universe define space and time as
space-time because one cannot be described without the other.
That's why a hierarchy on time and space wouldn't make sense.
While there certainly is a defined hierachy on the dimensions of space, I don't see any hierachy for time and energy (or mass, which actually equals energy).
Anyway, trying to define a hierarchy on dimensions as properties
of the perceived universe requires a definition of the term
'dimension'. So what do you consider a 'dimension', besides
time, space and mass/energy?

[edited by - darookie on April 21, 2003 4:20:42 PM]

That''s what I''m talking about. We don''t see time, we see the effects of it.

Physics is way more fun on acid, huh?

"Math is hard" -Barbie

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Original post by Pragma
Physics is way more fun on acid, huh?

"Math is hard" -Barbie

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Whoa, slow down dude! You just blew my mind.

Graham Rhodes
Senior Scientist
Applied Research Associates, Inc.

hey, the teory you talk about looks a scary lot like the cave projection theory of the greek philosoper dude, plato i believe. i dont know if its based on it, but the guy drew pretty much the same conclusion 2000 years ago. funny.

btw, the whole thing about god being the fourth dimension... could you explain that further, with something more sientific, cos this makes your theory a little, well, unacceptable for me.
it is some sort of metaphor (or however you spell that), cos you put it between brackets, or are you just trying to fit in you religion into physics?

I don't know. It was just a theory. So what do you think the 4th dimention would be? Time is a possable representation of "god" because it's the only thing that ages things. Energy and mass could just be the heiarchy that controls that "god." Maybe I'm wrong, but to some degree it makes sense to me.

Let me re-state my assumptions.

At any rate, though slightly primitive, my theory is based upon the basics of geometry. There are points, there are lines, there are planes, there is space, and then what is there? If you look at the structure of a point, you see the beginning of something from nothing, because without points none of the higher dimentions could exist. It takes 2 points to see a line, 2 lines to see a plane, and 2 planes to see 3 dimentional space.

Also, observe that points reside in each of these dimentions and each smaller dimention beautifly fits into each of the larger dimentions like a parent and child structure does in code. Thus, since they are of the same "class", they would be of equal value, coexist, however be dependent on each other to define their form.

So that observation seems to be in agreement with current theories that we are made of space-time. Thus my "hiearchy theory" is looking more like a taxonomy method for the universe. However, hiearchy can take an additive or deductive proccess of logic that shows the interdependance of the universe as well as the order.

Hmm... What dimention could come next based off of what has been observed?

[edited by - smiley4 on April 22, 2003 4:21:08 PM]

I agree with Eelco, that god bit makes it a bit, well, far-fetched... I mean, I'm damn sure that time passes and that I can see things height and width, but I'm not so sure that there is a god.

Another thing is that the first 3 dimensions can basically be swapped around as I see fit. If I walk around something, its width suddenly becomes depth, and if I knock it over, its height becomes width... So, why shouldn't the same thing be possible for other dimensions too? If I knock over your "god", does he become time? :D Or does time turn into the width of my fridge if I walk around it?

My point is just that your hierachy doesnt seem to fit on the "ordinary" 3 dimensions

Edit: Just another point that occurred to me:
Just because dimensions seems to "fit together" beautifully, as you say, that might not mean much.... The classic example is saying that since human beings fit so well on this planet, it must have been made specifically for us... Or we've just adapted to the planet we're stuck on...

Finally, regarding dimensions, I definitely wouldn't trust a line or a point to be able to tell me anything about a plane, and I wouldn't trust people who only see 3 dimensions to tell me what the 6th dimension is...

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Life is like a grapefruit. It's sort of orangy-yellow and dimpled on the outside, wet and squidgy in the middle. It's got pips inside, too. Oh, and some people have half a one for breakfast

[edited by - Spoonster on April 22, 2003 4:45:02 PM]

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Original post by Spoonster
I mean, I''m damn sure that time passes and that I can see things height and width, but I''m not so sure that there is a god.

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Well, if you were blind you wouldn''t see widths and heights...

Religion says that God acts through time, but we fail to detect the works of God because we don''t know how/when he acts, and being the "time" so wide we aren''t able to see his acts without his help.

Lets transport this to a 2D world:

Imagine you are 3D God of a 2D world. Imagine this world as a plane. You put your finger over the plane to make the 2D entities see you, but since they only percieve things in 2d they will only see a growing circumference as you push your finger into the plane.

Now, how can this 2D entities posibly imagine your 3D properties or the simple fact of you pushing your finger into their world in a 3D dimension manner? Imposible.

Now try to imagine what could you do to comunicate with them in a way they could, at least, remotely figure who and how are you.

A 2D book wouldn''t be such a bad idea, maybe. What big diference could you find between a 2D PentiumIII and a 2D book, being you a 3D God?