Hey guys, I was amazed at how many replies i got in my last post, so here comes another . What do you think is the fun factor for Role-Plying Games? Also, what do you think the majority of RPGers want to see next in there ever evolving genra? Sir Darkan Fireblade

Well there''s one thing which I think is extremely important when making an RPG. Its to cater to fantasies. The bottom line is that RPGs tend to fulfill certain fantasies that people have. These fantasies are mostly childhood fantasies. Commanding a whole army, Being unnaturally strong, Being able to summon creatures of the deep to do you bidding, *saving the world!!*. This is a really simple concept to follow, but it works. Actually this is true for most games. Fun factors are all really just a point of view, whats fun for me is maybe boring as hell for you. I think programming is FUN. But some people think Im crazy (for some crazy reason ). So many things can be fun.
ripping off peoples heads
being able to save the world
being able to "dress up" your avatar
hardcode item/stat management
automatic itme/stat managemtn
...the list goes on. Its really hard to explain

:::: [ Triple Buffer V2.0 ] ::::

Here I go !

-Involving story, with a few branchs, some side quests (worth
something, can be related later)
-Good graphics
-Good soundtrack
-None boring battle system
-Two paths, one without battle (maybe not everytime)
-Character based ennemy level
-NOT saving the world (saving a realm, village or someone is enough)

that''s enough for now.

-* So many things to do, so little time to spend. *-

In an RPG of any kind, the #1 thing I want is choices. Railroading is one of the worst things an RPG can do, and limiting players to "sword" or "magic" is even worse. There should be a billion different types of weapons and a billion different ways to use magic. Having "magic bolt" be one of 2 spells to choose from is BORING. The same goes for picking "axe" or "sword" - BORING. IMO there should be at least 10 types of everything. If you choose magic, there should be at least 10 different kinds of magic(plant, animal, fire, mind control, etc), and in each type, there should be at least 10 spells(flame strike, fireball, flaming weapon, ignite, etc). For melee, there should be 10 different classes of weapons (sword, mace, axe, polearm, etc), and then 10 different weapons in each class (long sword, short sword, bastard sword, great sword, etc)

Next, each choice should make a DIFFERENCE. That doesn't mean that sword type A does 1 damage and type B does 2 damage - it means they do different damage, have different speeds, do different TYPES of damage, work differently against different kinds of armor, have different ranges, different weight, different required strength, maybe you can throw one and not the other, etc. The choice to use say a short sword is much different than a long sword, because a swort sword is used to pierce and a long sword is used to slash an bash. Versus plate mail, where slashing isnt going to happen, a swort sword is much better. Versus chainmail, the long sword's weight might make it do more damage.

Note that choices should involve more than just ways to fight, but that is the easiest example (and most CRPGs are all about fighting anyways). There should be choices in any story as well; choices should be everywhere.

[edited by - Extrarius on February 3, 2003 12:59:50 PM]

Yeah I agree. The (nicely phrased) railroad scenario is quite unpleasant. But there is a problem. You see there are hardcore games and there are those that just play casually. The casual gamers dont mind this railroad system. Im actually in between hardcore and casual, I hate doing SOM MUCH stat fixing and character configuration, I like the character configuration simple and straight forward, something i can pick up in a minute and master. Like I played baldurs gate 2, and I know that its a really great game and it got these awards or something, but I played the first half hour and I havent touched it since (except to check out features for my own RPG), and that was a very long time ago. I didnt play it again because of all teh character configuration I had to do, I foud it quite boring. Others love it, but there are those that dont. I prefer tactical battle scenarios, deep stories, lots of character building, and choices.

Also another thing I thought of that adds to the enjoyment of playing RPGs (any game for that matter) is how the game (i really cant think of a good word for this) expresses itself. I mean like say you press a button onscreen that leads to the menu. If the menu just pops up alls ok, but if the manu had a little random animation that would be cool, and make it more intresting. This is also added work for designers, but it works. For example take the final fantasy series (before X). After sometime of playing you end up on the world map, where you move around till you get to another town/dungeon. The FF Series maps ARE VERY BORING TO WALK IN. If you had more happening in the world it would be so much more fun. It feels like your the only living thing around for gods sakes. Even things as suttle as trees swaying in the wind would ADD to the experience and bring more life to the game.

Loosing site of the small things is very very easy to do. You eventually get so attatched to YOUR vision that yuou loose the players'' vision. You think its AWSOME, but a different pair of eyes sitting on the OTHER side (the has no idea about development side) will think very differently. When I play games most of the time the thing that is going on in my head has to do with how this game was developed, "OOh look at that bump mapping, is it? or is it some algorithm they use for anuimation", "That particle system they have there is doing some really neat stuff, I wonder if I add a little more gravity to my system would it do what theirs does?". I assure you that gamers that do not develop dont even think about thinking of those kinda things.

hmm...I feel like I went off track somewhere ...heh i dunno.

:::: [ Triple Buffer V2.0 ] ::::

quote: Original post by Extrarius
IMO there should be at least 10 types of everything. If you choose magic, there should be at least 10 different kinds of magic(plant, animal, fire, mind control, etc), and in each type, there should be at least 10 spells(flame strike, fireball, flaming weapon, ignite, etc). For melee, there should be 10 different classes of weapons (sword, mace, axe, polearm, etc), and then 10 different weapons in each class (long sword, short sword, bastard sword, great sword, etc)

Phelanor''s First Law of Computer Games
The amount of time needed to play balance a game is directly proportional to the cube of the permutations of sides/damage types/ damage defenses available.

Phelanor

Extrarius, aside from sounding like a d&d player , is definately onto something.

One thing I personally would like to see become mainstream is an open ended rpg. Even d&d-related rpg''s I''ve played follow a fixed sequence of events. An rpg should allow you to Cause events based on Choices, choices not selected from a list. This can be extremely hard to do effectively (like in nwn, if you accidently hit some neutral dude who''s helping you out, he turns on you above even the monsters he''s supposed to be fighting), but I think it''s worth taking a few years to do. (I can only assume that they were trying to make nwn more like this, but couldn''t get enough time from the pic''s).

Another, more manageable, alternative would be to ''hide'' the main quest(s). e.g. discover some plot too take down some kingdom with the possibility of having to deal with the kingdom''s downfall if you don''t uncover the plot (opening up more main quests), or maybe join the plot and take up a position of power after in turmoil afterwards.

I''d also go with IFooBar, but not too an extreme. In some games you can easily end up being ''a god without peer'' (like ff tactics), at which point the game loses some of it''s draw. Such characters should be reserved for movies (or something). Another thing that I would like to see is a breakout of the ''hero mentality'' (another thing you see a lot in movies) where one 4 people can take on an army and have high hopes of 0//nz1n9 +h3r3 4553z, generally w/out a single casualty. This is also related to the tendency of the outcome of a battle to depend a lot more on how much leveling up you''ve down than your actual skill at the game ( //4|) 5|<1llz are the basis of just about every other genre out there, why not rpg''s? sidenote: Diablo II is a good example of combining skill and leveling up, but as an actual role-playing game it sux). Also, one should not be able to go into ''the feared dark forest of the western wood'' or somesuch and be able to come out of it easily. Such things that have been a bane or barrier for centuries should remain so, barring some epic happening; you shouldn''t be able to just walk through them.

//-- Next paragraph is a brag/rant that serves no actual purpose

I''m currently working on a real-time tactical rpg (or will be as soon as my 5k|11z catch up w/ my thoughts) that includes 8 (so far) schools/classes of magic, one of which is my unique creation (though inspired by WoT) and another of which (the summoner) has been expanded far beyond the previous extent of the class. It includes two item types whose effects have not yet been seen and a diablo type system for most everything else. It also has a unique system for elements. It 0//nz. I haven''t even gone into the battle system yet (which fulfills all previous stipulations).

aka Maverick404 / rockhead6@juno.com

Home is the realm of darkness.

More open-ended games like Morrowind. I think no more has to be said =P

I''ll admit it - at one time I was at one time a D&D player, but I''ve seen the light! =-) Haven''t been able to find any non-D&D games though(and I don''t have the skill to be GM) =-(

The light sure is lonely.

yes, Phelanor, balancing a game: that''s f''in hard. I think a major part of that is too have some relevant, and notable, cost for everything of power and greatness (or some requirement that already has that incorporated). everyone has a playing style, this must be catered to. The opportunity to expand on that playing style or adopt (aspects) of others should also be included. There''s lots of people, and so lots of playing styles, and so we must have huge incredible masses of things with which to stab, burn, zap, crush, or otherwise lay waste to whatever unfortunate form of life whose doom it was to stumble across my path.

And uh IFooBar (i''m assuming your an uninitiate), ya look at the box and it will say TSR and Forgotten Realms. TSR means it''s based on d&d: d&d spells, stats, leveling, character interaction, whatever. Forgotten Realms means it''s set in a large (see also Icewind Dale and Neverwinter Nights), and previously established, world with characters / heros / events that, too those who have played in it or read the books set there, make it much more ''real.''

But this is turning into a D&D thread, which I think is somehow not what Fireblade was thinking of.