quote: Original post by SpittingTrashcan
This model can be adapted to MMORPG quite simply. Game time progresses as real time, or at most at a 2x ratio. When the player is offline, the character has a "day job" and routine which includes all the necessities of life: eating, sleeping, and so forth. When the player is online, the character is taking a break from his routine to have an adventure. During this time he can forgo eating, sleeping, and other needs for as long as it takes to get things done - perhaps by using drugs, magic, or some other jury rig. Or he can indulge in a meal while discussing his next move with his allies. When the player goes back offline, the character calls it a day and heads on home.

Doesn't this seem reasonable?

More than reasonable, I think it sounds fantastic. I've considered the idea of having the character have an automated existence while the player was offline before, but I could never figure out how to prevent that from interfering with the player's own decisions and gameplay. But you've hit the nail on the head, as they say -- naturally, the character should go about doing NORMAL things when the player is offline.

Only one snaffu -- what about when the player goes offline and leaves his/her charater out in the middle of nowhere, or in a war zone, or what have you? That method only seems to work if the character is at or near his/her home -- it doesn't work when the player is out traveling. I mean, sure, the character could just start heading back home again, but there are plenty of times when I want my character to be right where I left him when I return.

It could be left to the player's option, but if I forget to turn off the "Go Home and Do Normal Stuff" option before accidentally getting booted from the game (say, due to network issues, or an unexpected errand in the real world) I don't want to come back the next day and find that my character has spent the night wandering back toward his house.

Edit: I kinda think he should just setup camp right there where I left him, if possible, or just sit and rest if its a less convenient location.

[edited by - irbrian on December 3, 2002 2:43:10 AM]

A solution - dream worlds.

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The problem with "realisam" is knowing when enough is enough..know what I meen?

In the real world...food can spoil...become rotten...cause illness (even death)...and there is a whole slew of extra activities involved with it...from preperation (building a fire, prepareing the meal, cleaning ones teeth...yes they even had toothbrushes back then) all of which can effect the character in specific ways...eat a very good meal, and your spirits pick-up...eat left-overs for three days in a row, and you can feel depressed...don''t take care of your teeth, cavities can form...even infection, leading to death, if not cared for properly...

Do we really want to see such things in games?

Of course not...So why are we trying to make each generation of games more realistic?...if things continue on this path, then get used to such activities as brushing your characters teeth, given another ten years...it could be the norm (as it''s more realistic then "draging and dropping" genaric pre-made food to your characters mouth for a quick and simple hitpoint gain)....the way things are going "tomorrows standards for realisam"...will, in the future be "yesterdays examples of simplicity" if the "realisam" trend continues (all signs point to yes!)



Why are eating and sleeping important to the gameplay?...not "important to the realisam of the game world"...but important to the pure give and take of the gameplay...

Why not have the character slowly regenerate his/her health?...do this slowly...like one point every ten minutes...that way "food" can still be effective for larger gains... You could explain this by indicateing that the character has a spell cast on him/her...or better yet...just provide a quick little animation of the character eating "snack food" (doesn''t show up in inventory) that randomly plays as the player runs around (when the charater is on the surface, also show him grap "snack foods" from apple trees when he passes by)...and when the character stops for a brief periond of time (to look around, or waiting for something)...show a "idle animation" of the character takeing a quick nap

..If the whole gameplay point of eating and drinking is to increase ones health...then there are lots of ways to do that without forceing the player to take charge of specific actions...

I like Star Wars Galaxies'' approach. Food provides temporary bonuses but it is not necessary to eat. Thus you may wish to eat something before leaving town, choosing the food that will give you the desired bonuses, but it''s not something you need to do.

Even The Sims handles the food problem by making it very difficult for Sims to starve. Sure, it encourages you to feed them regularly because they become very unhappy if hungry, but it''s more or less optional.

~CGameProgrammer( );

quote:
-An actual explanation behind everything that isn''t standard in our world (such as monsters and their habits, or magic)

This is not necessary as even if there is a logical explanation for everything the player character doesn''t necessarily know what it is. This is especially true for RPGs in fantasy settings.

However, if you explain everything this can create an interesting quest for players who like to explore. Let them solve the mysteries in your game world. This is a nice option for players who prefer nonviolent gaming, too.

I HATE having to get my character to eat. Especially with some of the rogue-like games. My worst eating experience ever was in Omega, where I had just started the game and was about to enter the first level of the dungeon when I stepped on a teleportation trap and was tossed out of the city and into the wilderness(which had its own time-scale so you consumed food more quickly). I wasn''t prepared for such a journey, and didn''t have the food I required, so I died of hunger before reaching anything. Game over. Start a new character.

quote: Original post by MSW
The problem with "realisam" is knowing when enough is enough..know what I meen?

It''s quite simple really... if adding an element adds to the gameplay by providing an interesting choice or trade-off, then it''s not too much. If it just forces the player to do something else in order to ''maintain'' their character, then it is. I don''t think there''s a dilemma here.



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Hehe. I would chuck the eat/sleep thing out unless you really want a very realistic sim or it''s essential to the game rules (like D&D). You can make it an option for people who really want realism in a what are in my opinion very silly and unrealistic genre.

The worse example of this I can remember was in the game Darkstone. Dude, this guy was always hungry. And if I couldn''t find him a chicken-wang fast enough he''d start going into some bizarre ketosis and dying. It was really friggin annoying. And, he also aged and got too old for sh*t way to fast. Like one dungeon equaled 2 years of his life, but it only took me 30 minutes to clear it.

Unless you have amazing talent to pull off the eat/sleep/wahtever realism sims just can it and forget it they have always been more distracting to the game than a benefit to me anyways. The best of it was in Pool of Radiance 2, a little screen popped up and you could escape it and you were ready to go again.

On the deep storyline part:
I think that the storyline part is very useful for quite a few reasons. Not only does it add realism to the game, but it also gives the designer a place to pull ideas from when hit with a problem. I feel that knowing about it should be optional for the player, if they want to know details about the how and why, they can search it out. But if they need to know, tedium can occur to action-oriented players.

Food and Sleep eh?
For my current project, I''ve sacked them because time is very critical, and I don''t want the player to feel that they''re wasting valuable time resting, and they would most likely rush the resting or not rest at all. Thus taking the risk of whatever negative effects occur through insomnia or starvation over not completing the timed task.

So if time is that important, might want to opt out on the sleep and food.

Another option, without repeating stated solutions, is an option that Medievia, a text-based MMORPG, did for food and sleep. Albeit I didn''t care for the way sleep was handled, so we''ll just focus on the Food and Water aspect.

The players need to rest after a few battles, to regain hp and mana, and during that time, it''s easy to check on whether they''re thirsty or hungry, then making the appropriate actions. The game also included spells to create food and water (For the Cleric class, a definate must for many of the longer and harder areas) So getting more food and water was fairly easy to accomidate.

Hullo! This is my first post in a month or so, since I''ve been busy readying college essays.

quote: WHY is it that in almost every CRPG I play, a day passes in like an hour? That''s ridiculous. There''s NO reason why the game can''t be in real time. If it has something to do with making sure that players in certain time zones always have a fair amount of daylight, then make time zones within the game world, so that while time passes realistically, daylight is relative to the character''s position in the game world.

I agree. This is the solution I use in the game I''m currently working on, a tactical-action-RPG. The game has time, but it progresses at the leisurely pace of (1 hr.)1 hr.), so there''s no hurry to play the game through before your characters die of old age. Any amount of time can be easily skipped via the adjustable "Rest" option, which will allow you to wait for any amount of time from 15 seconds to several years and allow you to specify whether you want your characters to:

-Stay in one place during this time or roam around somewhat. Characters/troops forced to stay in one place for long periods of time will get stiff joint and may desert. Telling people not to move for more than a few hours will result in mass desertions unless you have fanatically loyal troops.

-Eat (though they''ll only obey if it''s necessary) or try to hold off a bit longer. Once again, most troops will desert or disobey orders before allowing you to starve them to death.

-Forage or not forage. If you''re just about anywhere except in a dungeon, your food supply can be expanded by searching the area a bit. When given this command in a populated area, soldiers will take what little gold is in their pockets and try to beef up their equipment and rations somewhat by buying from/bartering with the local population. Execute this command and tell the game to skip the next 12 hours and you''ll find a well-rested, well-fed army with better equipment and depleted individual gold reserves.

-Sleep as a group; sleep, but keep watchmen posted; or attempt to keep the entire group awake. You can even specify what percentage of the group you want awake at any given time!
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Bear in mind that characters who do not require these things will not obey them on your orders. If you have stone golems in your party, for example, they will not eat or sleep with the rest of the group and represent a constant core of guards that you will remain posted at all times.

And, of course, I don''t worry about silly things like dying of dehydration or food rotting.

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