Archon: when i was talking about "unrealistic" battle systems, i meant those when u have a hp of a 30 in the beginning and a hp of 250 in the end (in this case: fallout, wich has a strange mix of realistic and unrealistic...)

i was not complaining about the existance of mages etc...

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Game projects:
www.fiend.cjb.net

Sorry, misudrestood...

Time comes, time goes and I only am.

quote: Original post by Kylotan
Well, I never said undefended.

I though that''s what you meant by "clear blows". The point being any fighter higher than level 1, will never get hit by a clear blow, because hit points are a measure of his ability to reduce damage taken. The 8 hp sword blow at first level might have gone through his stomach and the 8 hp sword blow at ninth level would only scratch his side.

quote:
And doesn''t a mace do more damage than a dagger under the standard rules? I forget.

Yes, but, dear god!, have you ever seen a war mace before? Not the DND art of a round ball on a stick, but an actual, honest-to-goodness 12th century war mace?

quote:
I prefer the Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay combat rules if you want players to actually fear for their lives.

Nah, too many of my instincts still carry over from Warhammer, where it''s a *mistake* to fear for your mens lives.

quote: Original post by PsYcHoPrOg

AHHHGH!!! *twitch* I''ll *twitch* try not to flame you here...

RPG''S ARE ONE OF THE BEST GAMING GENRES EVER CREATED! Some of the best games ever created are RPG''s. Look at the Zelda series(Adventure RPG''s actually. But who''s that technical?) And the Final Fantasy Series along with Chrono Trigger! Who could ever forget those! And, my personal favorite Seikendensetsu 3(Secret of mana 2)!!

So *twitch* next time you think about Rpg''s being crappy, *twitch* THINK AGAIN!!!!

Chill, Psychoprog, He''s talking about RPG *kits*. You know, like verge-rpg or similar packages that already contain the engine. You supply the maps and the artwork. I pretty much have the same opinion as him. They''re too cookie-cutterish. It''s not much fun playing a game that is exactly the same as all the other ones available.

(Actually verge-rpg is better than the rest, but I can''t think of the names of any of the others off the top of my head.)

I have to admit, I havent seen any of the RPG makers, but on principle, if you can create a decent looking/playing/feeling adventure with one, then why the hell not? I mean, its just another tool. If you can find a tool that does everything you need it to, then you would be a bit silly to ignore it. Why re-invent the wheel?

With all of that said, of course, I can see a couple of hundred reasons why one wouldnt want to use an RPG maker. Most of us want to do it all ourselves, from scratch, for a multitude of reasons (ie. Cos we want to, for learning purposes, because we think we can do it better, or whatever). But at the end of the day, if all you want to do is tell your story, and the RPG maker''s engine works for you, then go ahead and use it.



--== Rapier ==--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Save the whales, feed the hungry, free the mallocs!

AD&D is possibly the worst RPG system ever published, and the most popular.

Contradictory? Not really. The reason most people play is is because most people play it.

Did you get that?

It''s rather like a language. You can pick between mastery of two languages. One is clearly defined, unambiguous and elegant. The other is messy, muddled and confusing. The only catch is that 99% of the people you need to talk to use the second language.

Like a language, the value of a RPG game system is the people who play it. Try playing a really well written RPG alone. Now try playing AD&D with some good gamers.

Admittedly, I''d rather play a well written RPG with some good gamers, but it''s rather difficult to arrange, given that AD&D is the most popular RPG currently on the market.

How does this relate to the thread?

It doesn''t really matter if you use a canned RPG maker kit or not. What really matters is if you have an interesting setting, story and character set. The advantage such a kit confers is that you spend less time programming the nuts and bolts level menu system, map system etc. and more time giving us the characters, storys and situations that make us all play RPGs in the first place.

Unless you''re only playing so you can get high enough level to cast polymorph other or somesuch...

$0.02

I apologize for my last post(a bit excentric), but I just think that RPG's don't have to be too "cookie cutterish". Look at Final Fantasy Tactics. It has a whole new type of battle system.

And Final Fantasy VII. Sure, it may be like a normal battle system, but would you have thought of the "limit" bar? I highly doubt it.

My point is, RPG's can be flexible. It just depends on the game designers. That's what I think.

As for the game play in RPG's... they all differ greatly. I depends on the story, not the battle system.

Also, you get to watch your charecter grow and go through with his/her life and adventures. And alternate endings give most RPG's a lot of replay-value.

RPG's are not cheating. It's more of a challenge for the writers and game designers rather than the programmers and artists.

I just love RPG's and can't stand watching people put the genre down(which, at first, was what I thought the original poster was doing. That will explain my other outburst in this thread.)

"Remember, I'm the monkey, and you're the cheese grater. So no messing around."
-Grand Theft Auto, London

"It's not whether I win or lose, as long as I piss you off"
-Morrigan, Super Puzzle Fighter II Turbo

Edited by - Psychoprog on 3/27/00 6:25:15 PM

I don''t know about cheating, thats probably the stupidest thing to say about trying to start off a programming career... Really a good RPG is in no way cheating, many sorts of games can be built off RPG, and there are some people that don''t play anything else but RPG, go to our page and see the RPG we are making. There is no cheating involved, its called "HEATHEN" and we built all the Music, ART, Story, and the Engine. How can you call that cheating?

- king171@hotmail.com
- http://www.cfxweb.net/mxf/

I think you misunderstood me...

When i was talking about RPGmakers, i wasnt talking about the people that are making RPG''s (hell, im making one!)

i was talkinh about programs that "make" the RPG for you...
(maybe you should check the homepage i was refering to...)

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Game projects:
www.fiend.cjb.net

Someone (I think it was on the directx page about using D3DX) said something that I think relates to this. (Applied to this post) It doesn''t matter whether a person uses an RPG Maker or not, as long as it is a good game, and the person learns something, and enjoys it.
If you think RPG Makers are cheating, don''t play them. Also, why should someone have to have programming knowledge to make something themselves?
Take the game you are making, or many other people are making. Do you use D3DX? Some people may find that cheating, since you are not using true immediate mode, with the confusion and all. Are you using C++ or VB? That''s cheating too, as the compiler is doing all the real work. True programmers use assembly, or rather write it in pure binary.
The above statement is obviously false, as anyone who writes a game at all should feel proud. Obviously they did show work, and people who use RPG Makers do show work also. Maybe they don''t show the same type of work as you, but you are trying to compare apples to oranges. A good programmer does not have to be a good storyteller, artist, musician, etc. A good storyteller, artist, musician, etc., does not have to be a good programmer. As long as they get accomplished what they want too, and as long as the result is quality, what complain?
And don''t take this the wrong way, but usually the people who complain at this type of stuff are those who are jealous. You see someone who can''t out program you, yet they still make a better program just because they have talent in areas maybe you don''t have. I''m not saying this is true, just my own 2 cents.