Comments
Thank you Sophie for sharing your experience!
Great Article.
Thanks Filorvy. It really was an interesting development. Next time I'll write an analysis about our Kickstarter defeat :p We had to cancel it and we learnt a lot from it.
Nice article, but my question is why did you set your goal at $60k? The prototype looked good, but I didn't back it because of the goal price. The last two games I backed were $2500 and $7500. The game looks great and you have 555 backers so I'm sure you could get it backed, just not sure it can be for over $10k. I think that was the biggest negative for the game. You promoted it like crazy on multiple sites which was good and word of mouth was positive too. I hope to see the game and more from you in the future.
Thanks for sharing Sophie! I'm sure lots of people would absolutely love to read about your Kickstarter experience as well if you want to write it up sometime in the future -- perhaps timed to gain some additional exposure when you decide to re-launch! :)
Nice article, but my question is why did you set your goal at $60k? The prototype looked good, but I didn't back it because of the goal price. The last two games I backed were $2500 and $7500. The game looks great and you have 555 backers so I'm sure you could get it backed, just not sure it can be for over $10k. I think that was the biggest negative for the game. You promoted it like crazy on multiple sites which was good and word of mouth was positive too. I hope to see the game and more from you in the future.
Thank you for your feedback. I understand your point of view. But honestly the Alpha already cost us something like $100.000 and to add features such as a new friendly-user level editor, the possibility to code in-game, a story with 3D scenes, we needed these $60k. Trust me, there is still work needed :)
I really loved "30 people indie studio" part
Yeah I know :) Honestly we totally feel like indies. We grown up too fast. I heard that Rovio said that they were a little start up with facilities lol
Thanks for sharing Sophie! I'm sure lots of people would absolutely love to read about your Kickstarter experience as well if you want to write it up sometime in the future -- perhaps timed to gain some additional exposure when you decide to re-launch!
Thanks you! Yeah let's hope the reboot we'll be more successful :)
Failure is indeed the best lesson, but perhaps the objectives had to be more tangible. The majority of projects I read about fail because they set to achieve too high of a goal.
It would seem that game design and execution of its design got compromised by countless hours of brainstorming. Even though they are crucial, I'd say that management could have been tighter.
Just speculating out of what is expressed in the article, anyway.
The game is apparently fantastic. I wish I had the money to back it up.
Thank you for your feedback. I understand your point of view. But honestly the Alpha already cost us something like $100.000 and to add features such as a new friendly-user level editor, the possibility to code in-game, a story with 3D scenes, we needed these $60k. Trust me, there is still work needed
I pray you mean a hundred dollars ($100.00) and not a hundred thousand dollars ($100,000.00). If you already have put $100 into it, so what? That doesn't justify wanting 600 times more for it. Most licenses to publish are $100. The game looks great, but I don't feel that warrants wanting 600 times more than what you put in or plan to put in.
If you haven't, look at other indie games on kickstarter. Here are the two I backed for examples of how you can make good games without wanting a fortune to get it backed.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/terncraftgames/neo-victorian-skirmish-squad
Thank you for your feedback. I understand your point of view. But honestly the Alpha already cost us something like $100.000 and to add features such as a new friendly-user level editor, the possibility to code in-game, a story with 3D scenes, we needed these $60k. Trust me, there is still work needed
I pray you mean a hundred dollars ($100.00) and not a hundred thousand dollars ($100,000.00). If you already have put $100 into it, so what? That doesn't justify wanting 600 times more for it. Most licenses to publish are $100. The game looks great, but I don't feel that warrants wanting 600 times more than what you put in or plan to put in.
If you haven't, look at other indie games on kickstarter. Here are the two I backed for examples of how you can make good games without wanting a fortune to get it backed.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/terncraftgames/neo-victorian-skirmish-squad
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/501263634/worlds-quest
I really meant a hundred thousand dollars. And we need 60,000 dollars more to finish it. We have to pay the 6 months of development necessary to finish it :)
Those games look nice but it's not comparable.
Did you saw our KS page and the features we'd like to implement? It's not a single person's work. Also, it is developed with our own engine which is itself constantly in development, so, have to managed it to. I'll also add that it's a 3D game.
We can't develop it for 100$ it would ruin us! We have families to feed. Hope you can understand that :)
Failure is indeed the best lesson, but perhaps the objectives had to be more tangible. The majority of projects I read of fail because they set to achieve too high of a goal.
It would seem that game design and execution of its design got compromised by countless hours of brainstorming. Even though they are crucial, I'd say that management could have been tighter.
Just speculating out of what is expressed in the article, anyway.
The game is apparently fantastic. I wish I had the money to back it up.
Thanks so much! You can vote for it on steam if you want to help :)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=183642128
I've been voting for anything that isn't mmo these days, voting up a good game will definitely be a good change!Thanks so much! You can vote for it on steam if you want to help
Although my initial impression was "Portal" but isometric ( kinda http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3Zxk8q_0yk ) , seems your project is more education oriented as original funder is that "training center".
Actually this is not a problem but your way of education orientation is more like "education = boring" fashion, imo.
If you ask me, assets are fantastic and base idea is not bad. But you have to change the way game is played if you want to entice people. Sorry if being harsh, but now game more looks like a Flash game with fancy graphics.
Classic fashion video games (ie non-MMO) has a serious advantage of giving product itself as perk, so it is rather easy to raise funding if people are convinced of game. If I were you, I'd head into a portal direction, not a ripoff ofc but include elements from there and combine with programming sequences. (My initial raving is algobot having a wrist computer to overcome some obstacles by solving soft-puzzles, and a story about saving power plant from collapse/meltdown whatever)
And I think another problem is kickstarter video is definitely fancy but not promising much. I get an impression of lack creating hype (what I get is there will be a level 324623498, sounding like Super Mario) . I have expectations from Don't Starve and Starbound for example, they are constantly developed to keep hype and demand.
Although doubt what I propose is possible without major engine overhaul, but imo this is the direction you need to head.
I really meant a hundred thousand dollars. And we need 60,000 dollars more to finish it. We have to pay the 6 months of development necessary to finish it
Those games look nice but it's not comparable.
Did you saw our KS page and the features we'd like to implement? It's not a single person's work. Also, it is developed with our own engine which is itself constantly in development, so, have to managed it to. I'll also add that it's a 3D game.
We can't develop it for 100$ it would ruin us! We have families to feed. Hope you can understand that
Them being 2D and yours being 3D doesn't mean they aren't comparable.
Most games aren't a single person's work, but requires teams as did both the games I posted. One was done by a friend (who has won awards himself) and the other was done by a team in the northern part of my state. I truly hope you get the game made.
Just please tell me that you all have primary jobs for income and are working on this as a team in your free time. I always get worried when I find teams have families and don't have a steady job while working on games.
Although my initial impression was "Portal" but isometric, seems your project is more education oriented as original funder is that "training center".
Actually this is not a problem but your way of education orientation is more like "education = boring" fashion, imo.
If you ask me, assets are fantastic and base idea is not bad. But you have to change the way game is played if you want to entice people. Sorry if being harsh, but now game more looks like a Flash game with fancy graphics.
Classic fashion video games (ie non-MMO) has a serious advantage of giving product itself as perk, so it is rather easy to raise funding if people are convinced of game. If I were you, I'd head into a portal direction, not a ripoff ofc but include elements from there and combine with programming sequences. (My initial raving is algobot having a wrist computer to overcome some obstacles by solving soft-puzzles, and a story about saving power plant from collapse/meltdown whatever)
And I think another problem is kickstarter video is definitely fancy but not promising much. I get an impression of lack creating hype (what I get is there will be a level 324623498, sounding like Super Mario) . I have expectations from Don't Starve and Starbound for example, they are constantly developed to keep hype and demand.
Although doubt what I propose is possible without major engine overhaul, but imo this is the direction you need to head.
Thanks for the feedback! Most of what you recommend to add in our game are already in our To-do list. Has we said before the problem is that Algo-Bot is now too educational, and we'd like to make it a real puzzle game with well-hidden coding basics. That's the reason why we run the Kickstarter. To create a sotry, to make the gameplay more appealing, etc...
Just please tell me that you all have primary jobs for income and are working on this as a team in your free time. I always get worried when I find teams have families and don't have a steady job while working on games.
Sorry to tell you this but we make games for a living.
I really meant a hundred thousand dollars. And we need 60,000 dollars more to finish it. We have to pay the 6 months of development necessary to finish it
Those games look nice but it's not comparable.
Did you saw our KS page and the features we'd like to implement? It's not a single person's work. Also, it is developed with our own engine which is itself constantly in development, so, have to managed it to. I'll also add that it's a 3D game.
We can't develop it for 100$ it would ruin us! We have families to feed. Hope you can understand that
Them being 2D and yours being 3D doesn't mean they aren't comparable.
Most games aren't a single person's work, but requires teams as did both the games I posted. One was done by a friend (who has won awards himself) and the other was done by a team in the northern part of my state. I truly hope you get the game made.
Just please tell me that you all have primary jobs for income and are working on this as a team in your free time. I always get worried when I find teams have families and don't have a steady job while working on games.
How on earth you expect them to make a full 3D game for 10k is not only unrealistic, but absurd. The game showed polished visuals, which for a video game kickstarter is essential when you do not have a famous studio or name behind you. I think it lacked a clear pitch that it is a puzzle game, and also the trailer didn't show enough gameplay. Showing the play through of a level would have been great, and maybe concepts of the features you would like to implement. I have a team working for a kickstarter and we are going to have to ask for quite a bit of money because content creation is labor intensive, and labor is not free.
I backed algo-bot. I have nieces who I am trying to get into games that are mind-benders :) Algo-bot would have been perfect for them.
(notice in my brief description I didn't say a word about coding :) )
Lastly, http://stonemaiergames.com/kickstarter/ is a great resource!!
I wish you guys the best of luck!!
-Joe Andresen
Redwood Pixel
redwoodpixel.com
How on earth you expect them to make a full 3D game for 10k is not only unrealistic, but absurd. The game showed polished visuals, which for a video game kickstarter is essential when you do not have a famous studio or name behind you. I think it lacked a clear pitch that it is a puzzle game, and also the trailer didn't show enough gameplay. Showing the play through of a level would have been great, and maybe concepts of the features you would like to implement. I have a team working for a kickstarter and we are going to have to ask for quite a bit of money because content creation is labor intensive, and labor is not free.
I backed algo-bot. I have nieces who I am trying to get into games that are mind-benders Algo-bot would have been perfect for them.
(notice in my brief description I didn't say a word about coding )
Lastly, http://stonemaiergames.com/kickstarter/ is a great resource!!
I wish you guys the best of luck!!
-Joe Andresen
Redwood Pixel
redwoodpixel.com
Oh thank you so much Joe! I felt like my explanations fell on deaf ears.
Thanks for the feedback about communication and for the resource. It will help for the reboot.
So, you backed the "For you niece pack"? ^^
Don't hesitate to share with me your KS page a soon as it's live
Cheers,
Sophie
Just please tell me that you all have primary jobs for income and are working on this as a team in your free time. I always get worried when I find teams have families and don't have a steady job while working on games.
What you're talking about is basically hobbyist development, with perhaps the idea of becoming a full-time indie in the future if successful. Serious indie development is quite often a full-time or near-to-full-time endeavour with much larger budgets, and honestly I think it's good to see a small studio who are actually asking for an appropriate amount of money so that they can work on their (very polished looking) game full time and get it completed as promised within a reasonable time-frame.
You're right that there are a lot of people asking for a lot less money to develop games, but all too often they actually underestimate the amount of money they need and end up slipping on their promises; features end up being dropped or delayed, and the release date is pushed back -- often because instead of asking for enough money to actually cover the development costs they've managed to raise a smaller amount but find themselves still having to work a day job to make ends meet.
Personally I think the funding goal for Algo-Bot was very reasonable, and I'm convinced that if they're able to secure that amount of funding Fishing Cactus should be able to develop exactly what they're promising, and without unreasonable delays or having to drop features.
Just please tell me that you all have primary jobs for income and are working on this as a team in your free time. I always get worried when I find teams have families and don't have a steady job while working on games.
Hold it there boy. You are starting to sound like grandma. Gamedev is not a hobby unless one is planning to construct a demo.
Just wondered if you sought for "classic" funding rather than crowd one which I believe more achieveable.
What you're talking about is basically hobbyist development, with perhaps the idea of becoming a full-time indie in the future if successful.
I don't differentiate between a hobbyist or indie. To me an indie (assuming indie still means independant developer -- as it can be applied to any industry) is someone that makes and publishes something (in this case a game) without the financial support of a large publishing studio (like Electronic Arts).
By the time I finished college I realized it is better to be a "hobbyist" (as you put it). The risk of being a full-time game programmer far outweighs the reward. While working a 9 to 5 job and working on games in your free time gives you the same reward chances without the same risks of not feeding your family or paying bills or losing your job due to not recouping what you put into the game.
Hold it there boy. You are starting to sound like grandma. Gamedev is not a hobby unless one is planning to construct a demo.
Just wondered if you sought for "classic" funding rather than crowd one which I believe more achieveable.
What do you mean by classic funding? Doing it by ourselves or asking help from government or something?
Just wondered if you sought for "classic" funding rather than crowd one which I believe more achieveable.
What do you mean by classic funding? Doing it by ourselves or asking help from government or something?
Both/either government incentives and/or private funding by a company/institution etc. It is apparent that self funding is not an option.
Hold it there boy. You are starting to sound like grandma. Gamedev is not a hobby unless one is planning to construct a demo.
Boy? Where I'm from, that is considered insulting and borderline derogatory. I'm 32 and haven't been called boy since I was 13.
If you already have put $100 into it, so what?
That sounds insulting, along the innuendo that these professional game developers (and perhaps all) should work on unrelated full time jobs because they aren't fulfilling your expectations.
If I may, what specific reason you had to choose and build an engine, instead of licensing one such as Unity or C4? Did the game have very specific needs that weren't met by any?Also, it is developed with our own engine which is itself constantly in development, so, have to managed it to. I'll also add that it's a 3D game.
That sounds insulting, along the innuendo that these professional game developers (and perhaps all) should work on unrelated full time jobs because they aren't fulfilling your expectations.
I have no expectations of any developers; I am a developer myself and I reserve all my expectations for my projects. She typed $100.000 so I assumed she meant $100.00 and $60k for only putting a $100 into it is ridiculous. I said "so what" because even a developer like me who works on things in their free time while doing a 9-to-5 job to feed their family, pay bills, and has to pay other necessities still has to pay $100 for licenses to publish on most devices and platforms. I question everything, especially when information is left out and typos happen, but VirginRed straightened it out. I guess if you have nothing to offer to a discussion it is obvious when you resort to making posts solely to insult someone.
How on earth you expect them to make a full 3D game for 10k is not only unrealistic, but absurd. The game showed polished visuals, which for a video game kickstarter is essential when you do not have a famous studio or name behind you.
If this was the 90s, I'd be inclined to agree, but with the engines, libraries, and tools out there now, I feel that it isn't unrealistic nor absurd to be able to make a full 3D game for less than $10k if you wisely spend money and don't just buy tools because they are the norm in the industry. I bought several engines that I have source to that I can go and add features that I need as I make a 3D game. My problem is that I can't ever catch the artists, musicians, or programmers I get along with when they have free time at the same time to make a team to do games so I dabble with games that will entertain my son and do the other jobs myself.
If I may, what specific reason you had to choose and build an engine, instead of licensing one such as Unity or C4? Did the game have very specific needs that weren't met by any?Also, it is developed with our own engine which is itself constantly in development, so, have to managed it to. I'll also add that it's a 3D game.
The game has been built with our engine initially to support complex LMS systems and also to allow to be code friendly when it will come (one day) to support different language parsing (LUA, Java and so on)... Mojito, the engine we have developed since 4 years made more sense to keep control of things compared to Unity for example. However we can actually say that we would have quickier results (especially visually) if we had make this project through Unity.
Developing Algo-Bot taught us the most important thing in game development: team communication. Read how hard it was to develop this game without killing each other.
Thank you Sophie for sharing your experience!
Great Article.