quote: Original post by Bandecko
Some people can''t see past their private circles.

What''s with the elitism complex?

I, and a couple of others, have pointed out some potential issues with your proposed idea. It''s obvious that games that rely on skill can be popular, and games that rely on stats can be popular, the only issue is how to get around the problems that arise by mixing the 2 approaches. Just because we point out that there are some issues you may need to surmount does not mean we are "unwilling to think outside of preconstructed rules and stereotyped genre functionality". Would you rather that 100 people all posted to say "yes, that''s wonderful" without any critical evaluation?

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science has discovered that a lot of nature''s interaction with itself can be defined by simple threshold equations. for example, a lion creeps until the probability of being discovered outwieghs the advantage that being closer affords.

now

is the notion of a skill based RPG grounded somewhere in the idea that it is possible to create a game that simulates the living of life by reducing the player''s choices to an assessment of a set of these threshold equations?

and is this to imply that there is nothing more to life than just such a process of evaulation?

Check out this link (you need to sign up for Gamasutra in order to read it)

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/game_design/19990312/ernest.htm

Ernest Adams talks about the usefulness (or lack thereof) of numbers in an RPG game. Some interesting ideas that I haven''t seen discussed here.

Basically he argues that magic is a strange and weird thing, and that our reliance upon numbers in a magic system is a holdover from D&D days when people wanted to make sure there was no cheating. Does having 412 Magic Skill and 134 Mana available to cast a level 4 Fireball (which will do between 20-34 damage, and consume 12 Mana) shoved in your face take away from the experience of losing yourself in a game? Does it hurt the disbelief involved with magic? Just things to think about. I, for one, think the numbers can be replaced by other things. In Asheron''s Call, people would marvel at whoever had 390 Life Magic.. but they''d be even more impressed when that Mage used his high magic skill to obtain a rare item.

My $.07

You know, I don''t see how the last 2 posts are relevant to the thread. It would be nice if there was some sort of clarification.

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The problem with MMORPGs is that they''re based on RPG fighting systems. I feel that if you want a realist fighting system in a MMORPG, then implement a system from a fighting game.

I think what you''re looking for is a fighting system from one of my fav PS1 Classics...bushido blade. There were no hit points. If you got hit in the leg, you started to gimp around. If you got hit in the arm, your swing was hindered. If you got hit in the body/head, you died.

As for the level thing, I kind of agree and disagree with you. People that put more time in, should be rewarded with a higher skill. But if I can''t play for 6 months because of some world crisis, my character shouldn''t be left out. I think a good way to solve this would be to give automatic time based experience. That way, when you do come back, you won''t be on par with everybody else, but you will have something to help you get on the move again.

When you can get a working cross between a fighting game and an RPG, you''ll have a

quote: Original post by Kylotan
You know, I don''t see how the last 2 posts are relevant to the thread. It would be nice if there was some sort of clarification.

That numbers take away from the immersion factor of a game is the argument.

A decent chunk of this thread is about player skill (small need for numbers, Quake 3) and character skill (the stat/skill-building common in RPGs like Levelquest, I mean Everquest). I like Bandecko''s idea, and although I don''t plan on implementing it as much as he visualizes, I will be getting rid of a bunch of numbers in my game.

The hidden relevancy is that we, as game designers, should never take standards and common conventions as the only way to do things. "An RPG without HP, MP and damage numbers? Unpossible!"

You''re right, asking a question about the theoretically ground for a skill based RPG isn''t relevant

You''re right, asking a question about the theoretically ground for a skill based RPG isn''t relevant

Did it occur to you though, that I might be trying to isolate the difference between diversity and redunancy in online community formation by refining the practical definition of a skill?