quote: Original post by deClavier
... about finding the right combination of holds/position for making the next step/grab/leap, which is played off against stamina.

... and psychological limits.

quote: Original post by deClavier
Lastly, I tend to push use of camera a lot. Does the opening scene to Mission Impossible 2 provide any inspiration?

Well, aside from the fact that it was Tom Cruise, sure. He was climbing the Fisher Towers just east of Moab. Been there once, but only for a little photography, no climbing. I believe it was Layton Kor and partners who did the first ascent of the Titan back in the ''60s, the Titan being the main draw at the Fisher Towers. I also believe my good friend climbed with Kor once, but that would be another story...

As for Mission Impossible serving as inspiration, yeah, I guess so, but the real inspiration comes from the real stuff: Royal Robbins doing first ascents on the big walls of Yosemite in the late ''50s and on through the ''60s, Galen Rowell and partners puting up new routes in the High Sierra throughout the ''70s and ''80s, and the monster walls in the Himalaya such as the Great Trango and Nameless Tower, and Peter Croft doing his multi mile long high altitude ridge traverses, and all the rest...

quote:
20+ keys

ms flightsims

Um, the ms flightsims weren''t that hard 2 pick up. you only needed a handful of keys to fly ok. the rest were for perfection

i would think that 20mins to learn the system is fine. of course, you''ll be able to do some basic stuff with less than that.

perhaps you could make the learning of interface gradual (?)

like you could climb like i can (utter crap) with just your mouse and a couple keys, then the game will introduce you to new techniques (new keys & combos) over time as you''re showing that you can use the ones you have already been told about

sound ok?

Yeah.

It also depends on the type of rock features you''re climbing. Friction slabs are generally climbable with only smears and fingertips. As you progress to more difficult climbs, you have to employ more moves, and be able to identify the combinations which work.

Steep faces generally require stemming, edging, smearing, and crimping. However, it is unlikely that you would use jams.

Steep faces with vertical cracks would typically require stemming, edging, smearing, crimping, and jams.

Very interesting thread going here. There is potential for some qualit fun. I see a few issues with some of the ideas that need to be addressed.

The first issue is that mountaineering (mountain climbing) is different than rock climbing. They contain similar elements and sometimes a mountain climber will utilize rock climbing techniques to achieve his/her goal. It is also true that sometimes in order to attend a climb one must use mountaineering techniques and preparations to get to a sight.

In mountaineering there is a lot more planning and logistics than in rock climbing (unless of course you are expedition rock climbing.) You have many factors to worry about that aren''t even considered in most rock climbing forays. See my post in this thread which discusses some mountaineering concepts that could be added to a game.

As I see it, you have three different games here. You have exploration (macroscopic navigation around several mountains), rock climbing (microscopic navigation of one rock formation) and mountaineering (attaining the summit on one mountain.) It will be difficult to make a good game with three separate interfaces. The in game logistics involved in each of the three different topics will be quite daunting. NOTE: The delineation between exploration and mountaineering is potentially quite small.

I suppose a game that combines elements of all three could be made but I''m afraid that you would dilute the fun factor that is potential in each individual game just to make this massive game playable.

RandomTask (amateur mountaineer, rock climber, adventurer, and professional software engineer and geek.)

P.S. Ice climbing is its own bag of worms as well.

RandomTask,
I just read your reply in the other thread where you posted. My hat goes off to you. I have found yet another individual here knowledgable in the ways of the mountains. I never saw that other thread before. Have you read my other threads?

Mountaineering is essentially a lot of stuff combined. Anyone wishing to develop games around such activities should become both an avid participant in the sport, even if to a moderate degree, and an avid reader of material on the sport.

My fist recommendation would be Mountaineering: Freedom of the Hills. I would also recommend Medicine for Mountaineering .

And I sure as heck would recommend joining me on one of my High Sierra trips to attempt bagging a fourteener like myself and a few other people (one other from this forum) are doing on the 18th of June.

You would learn firsthand about:

• AMS (Altitude mountain sickness).
  
• Evaluation and diagnosis of pulmonary and cerebral edema. To not know how to diagnose these is to willingly commit suicide.
  
• Talus and scree travel.
  
• Mountain terrain and topology.
  
• The harshness and beauty of high altitude terrain above timberline.
  
• Packing light and taking only that which is necessary.
  
• The ten essentials.
  
• Basic mountaineering credos, maxims and styles such as less is more and summit days are often long days.
  
• Using topo maps.
  
• The class rating system.
  
• And the list goes on and on...
  

[edited by - bishop_pass on May 28, 2002 7:17:07 PM]

Bishop_Pass,

I haven''t had the opportunity to read any of your other climbing based threads on this forum before but I''m impressed with this thread here. Isn''t it funny that there is so much lingo in climbing/mountaineering and yet none of it makes sense to an outsider?

I agree with your recommendation that anyone interested in making a game like this should participate in it a little. I know the first time I went mountaineering I didn''t know squat about it even though I''ve been an avid backpacker and expedition canoer for a long time.

Once the point of your expedition is to reach the summit, it is an entirely different game than hiking valleys or ridges. You enter a very exclusive world where there is a technique for everything and whether you know it or not can mean life or death. It is very exciting.

So which 14''er are you gonna try, Whitney, Shasta? My buddies and I wanted to do both Whitney and Shasta in one week this summer but I don''t know if my work schedule will allow it. We also want another shot at Rainier. I''ll actually be backpacking in the "Frank Church River of No Return Wilderness" over the fourth of July. There are some 12er''s in the area but my hiking partner (girlfriend) and puppy aren''t interested in summiting.

Good luck on your summit attempts in June!

As we say to newbies with crampons on "Stay off the damn rope."

Cheers,
RandomTask

RandomTask,
We're going up the North Fork of Lone Pine Creek. This is the approach for the East Face of Whitney. However, we're probably going to not do Whitney and instead do its neighbor a mile to the north: Mt. Russell, which is also a fourteener. It's a knifeblade ridge to the summit. If we have enough energy after Russell, we're going to go for Tunnabora, the Cleaver, and Carillon, all of which are thirteeners in the immediate vicinity.

We might do Whitney via the Mountaineer's Route the next day, but that depends on whether we have the energy and inclination.

[edited by - bishop_pass on May 29, 2002 11:44:23 AM]

Bishop_pass,

Did you read in the news that there are two confirmed dead on Rainier and one missing after a huge storm yesterday? Strange and sad news indeed. Strange because I''m secretly plotting to climb Rainier again and its as if my girlfried read my mind and sent a link to the story. The ole''lady isn''t to enthusiastic about this mountain climbing stuff cause she doesn''t want to lose a boyfriend.

By the way, on the topic of game design, there is a huge problem with the proposed user interface for this climbing game. Too many buttons! How about a system of icons on the right of the screen representing different holds/or foot techniques (depending on which limb is selected.) Then what you have is a way for the player to plot their next limb movements in sequence and hit "Go" to have the climber avatar attempt the sequence layed out.

You can assign speeds for each movement as well. As a rock climber sometimes I find that if I rocket through a difficult move I don''t have to hold myself up, just use the difficult hold as a transition to something easier.

RandomTask

I didn''t hear about the Rainier accidents. But then again, I haven''t been paying much attention to any news lately. Good luck on your Rainier ascent though. I''m more an Eastern Sierra man myself where there seems to be a lifetime of exploration and climbing.

Plotting the moves in advance is a good idea. Another way of doing it would be to right (or left) click on the hold in question, and select from a popup menu the type of hold you wish to employ and do that for a sequence of three or four moves at a time.