I guess the thing to decide is to lean more to a simulation or a less realistic (but possibly more fun) game. I think that a compromise between the two could be alot of fun. I think the focus should be primarily setup, enemy AI, and escape, rather than too many factors on the shot itself. I think that the premise behind a sniper situation can easily be made into a game, but in doing so would never be mistaken for a simulation. I think that it may be possible to include intricacies such as wind, elevation, load and ammunition in the ''Difficult'' setting, while the normal setting would ignore these elements. This may appeal to the gamers and the simulators, as the two would both be available.

I have been interested in seeing Day of the Jackal for some time now, just haven;t gotten around to it. Thx for the heads up.

--OctDev

Hmm this sounds as a good idea. To maybe broaden the idea how about making you in charge of a SWAT- Sniper Team or similar. For example you can either be a sniper on a roof nearby the scene and covering the SWAT-team inside or you can be inside with the SWAT-team as a member of the SWAT-team. Would probably be even more complicated but just a idea anyhow

Physics to notice when sniping is: wind, direction of target, distance to target, speed of target. A note is that hitting a target moving is ten-times harder then a stationary one.
Also if you want to make it really really relaistic different sniper rifles has their own characteristics, for example how fast the bullet hits the target and so on.

Hope it will work out!

//Daniel

I like the SWAT ideas, and had thought about possible missions along those lines. I agree about the physics involved, but the intitial reaction to this thread was against that. More and more seem to support it, so I think I will start leaning back to a more complex/simulation like game. Thx for the input.

--OctDev

Read Rainbow 6. That book is just oozing with snipery goodness which none of the rainbow 6 games have really done any justice to.
The hostage situation at the amusement park anyone? That would be awesome!
"kill innocent little children you cruel @&$!. You''re gonna die s.l.o.w.l.y." >

While we are at Tom Clancy (who wrote Rainbow 6 for those of you that might not know), You can also read his book Without Remorse. It has some elements of sniping and hiding most efficient in terrain. It introduces the now all famous John Clark from Clancy''s books and games.

Interesting idea. As has been mentioned, you'd have to be careful to strike a balance between simulation and gameplay - ideally let the player decide - ie allow them to turn off certain variables from the setup menu, etc. Breath control is of course essential to 'real world' marksmanship, but letting the player worry about it might be taking things too far.

The other tricky element would be keeping the player involved - you'd need a story, and the gameplay dynamic would have to keep the player wanting more. Think about it - a combat based game like Half-Life or Wolfenstein actually has a lot of different comabt scenarios - some sniping, some mid range work, a lot of CQB, some hand to hand, some indirect fire grenade + mortar style weapons, etc. A game based solely on sniping from a rooftop would have to have enough variety to keep the player interested.

Some gameplay ideas:
*One interesting complication you could introduce would be non-hostile targets - eg civilians, hostages or members of a unit you're providing overwatch for. Presuming you have a decent collision detection system, you could have interesting shots where a hostile has a hostage held by the neck in front of them - you only have a head to aim at, and if he turns round at the wrong moment...

*Obviously you would want extensive hit location detection - headshots and all that. Another twist might be the level of incapicitation caused by a kill shot. Eg, our vailiant player is on the lookout for a suicide bomber strapped up with explosives. But a regular headshot or torso kill won't be enough - you need to hit the brain stem area (back of the neck) in order to cause instant relaxaton of all the muscles. Otherwise reflex contraction of the button finger might result in a big boom...

*You'll want to model things like the delfecting effect on a bullet of passing through a bush, a car body or other soft-skinned object. Of course, bullet penetration could be a problem - all well and good if you nail the hostile with a fifty cal FMJ round, but what happens to the half dozen civilians lined up behind him?

*Another one: introduce some fancy AI for the hostiles, and make the player have to account for his actions according to his ROE. Eg a hostile is holding hostages, and a negoiator is talking to him. If the situation deteriorates, you've got to take him out, but only if there's no other option. Model the emotional state of the hostile - he might get more desperate, or start calming down, etc. This obviously works better in a police style situation where accountability is important.

*Other environmental scenarios like rain, thermal vision, fog, sandstorms, etc could provide variety of challenge.

Just my two cents

[edited by - NeverSayDie on May 24, 2002 9:25:52 AM]

Can you imagine how dull this would be multiplayer? Imagine CS or DOD where everyone used a sniper rifle.


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Dammit, is there ANYONE out there apart from me who believes there is life beyond multiplayer?

Sounds good if you implement everything you have included. Although I would definitely have some kind of sidekick. All snipers I know aren''t loners as the myth has it, but operate in teams. So you need a back up spotter in case you need short range firepower.

Otherwise, it would make for some interesting, albeit I think some one-dimensional gameplay. To make it more interesting, I think you''ll need to create infiltration missions. Also, what type of unit will the sniper belong to? A military unit like the SEAL''s or MArine snipers, or a police agency like Swat? This will greatly determine the kinds of scenarios that can take place.

Although I agree that there is life beyond multiplayer I do not agree with wild pointer''s belief in this idea creating a boring game. He mentions CS and DOD as examples of how this sniper game would be in multiplayer. Neither of these games are good examples. I believe it should stay truer to a simulation then a "game" of spraying ammo. As for multiplayer, watch the movie "sniper" it gives plenty of examples of cooperative sniping. Also if you made your maps large enough and the game was indepth as some of the posts suggest a game of cat and mouse could be run with numerous snipers out to take each other out. Imagine sneaking through bushes, attempting to take out the other players while trying not to be taken out, it takes patience and skill to be a good sniper.