I''ve been playing a lot of Halo, and I wish I could just play sniper all the time. So lets create a generic design of a sniper only game. Work for some sort of government agency (I am no where near brave enough to even consider the terrorist player right now). It could be slightly futuristic (Humans Good, Aliens Bad) to detract from the general gruesomeness of the situation. I''d like to see more sniper elements. More shooting variables: wind, distance, height, terrain (like shooting through a hole in a wall right in front of you), rifle type, ammuntion (load based on anticipated distance and obstacles, bullet pased on penetrating power vs. dmg power, etc), scope (type, power, number of zooms, auto/manual focus, night vision, infrared, etc), physical position you''re trying to shoot from, obstacles (shooting through a bush or a wall or a window or a car), sound. Enemy AI:Enemies that react to comrades being shot in the head, movement, lens flare, sound, bullets, scent, breath (moisture), unrealistic bushes crawling through a desert, etc. Enemies that search out and destroy perceived threats, using soldiers, artillery, dogs, snipers, etc. Sniper Tactics: Very fine movement control (speed, walking, running, jumping, crawling, slithering, rolling, standing coruching, and SPEED applied to all of these), camoflauge, primary cover, secondary cover, scent, hit and run tactics, hiding from searching enemies, killing enemies in turn (kill enemy A while enemy B is walking guard circuit, kill enemy B before sewing enemy A''s body, kill goal enemy C when he comes out to find enemies A and B), etc. Missions:Killing commanders, radio men, political targets. Decimating a troop of foot soldiers from afar, destroying their morale. Assisting friendly penetrating ground forces. Destroying lines of communication and supply trains. Lots of terrain: jungle, desert, mountain, forest, urban, rural, marsh/swamp, water?.... What do you think, and what would you add? --OctDev

It sounds cool, but it would have to be made right and it would take _way_ to long to make....

CEO Plunder Studios

Regarding the realistic physics demands... I'm not sure the fun factor would be very high.

It almost seems like having a sniper skill level, which determines the accuracy of the shot based on the position of your cross hairs directly on the target, would be a better implementation. (In higher winds a higher skill level would be required for more success). A more gamable one, anyway. I'm not sure I would enjoy figuring out the best way to adjust my shots based on wind.

Just my take.

It seems to me the realism of what it takes to be a skilled sniper vs. the excitedness of the story are almost counterpoints to each other. If there's an exciting story going on, I want an easy way to be a part of it and not have to worry about too many details.


[edited by - Waverider on May 19, 2002 7:44:40 AM]

I agree with Waverider about the physics. That sounds just too hard for me to consider playing the game. I guess it would be up to tweaking. However, I also disagree with the suggestion that bullets should be off by some amount based off of my skill. The though that I''m not shooting where I''m shooting because of random numbers is worse than not shooting where I''m shooting because of the environment. My suggestion would be for a Deus Ex style wiggle. You could even have drugs to reduce the wiggle factor.

As far as design goes, there definately should be a premium placed on finding good places in the level to snipe from. Maps, scouting, planning, whatever it takes to find the sweet spot and the way to get there.

I think it could be fun to have to work with a team as well, providing some cover fire.

I''m tempted to ask you about adding infeltration, but that would dilute the game''s style, and is basically unnecessarry.

All and all a neat idea.

Silent Scope anyone? Although i''ll admit having to compensate for wind while shooting from one moving platform to another as well as drift slightly damps the fun factor...

You might gain some insight from this thread.

PHRICTION

Has anyone played the sniping mission in Project: IGI (I''m going in)?

I thought the way it handled sniping was real fun. It didn''t include a lot of the elements you proposed, but it did however allow you to use other weapon types to establish a position to snipe from. Then a team went in and assaulted the enemy stronghold, while you provided covering sniping. The team could fend for itself up to a point but you made their job easier. The success of the mission depended on you providing good enough covering fire for the team to successfully complete their own objective. Just something to think about.... I personally thought this mission in the game was handled very well, if slightly too linear... but still great fun.

I can see where this would rapidly deteriorate from game to simulation, and why that might not be fun and definitely would not have a large enough audience to mkae production feasible. So from a game point of view, what aspects would you want kept? Most mentioned with the lack of some of the finer details about environment, shooting position and weapon specifics? A smaller subset?

What about eliminating most of the shooting variables--with the exception of the scope--and keeping the others. What about not having the wiggle or a randomness factor, but 1.)relying on players thumb skill, 2.)making movement extremly fine, thereby adding difficulty, 3.) increasing enemy movement and protection on highly prized targets.

Now is it fun? Thx for the feedback.

--OctDev

Thanx for the link Phriction, very good read...

--OctDev

Personally I think this is a great idea, but for gods sake don't ruin it by doing stuff like having a meaningless number define the player's accuracy.

Here are a few essential things you'd need in a sniper game.

1. Breathing control. The principles of marksmanship require correct breathing control, causing the foresight to rise and fall over the target vertically. Any slant to the motion will result in a poor shot. Also, range should be gauged and the sight zeroed to this.

2. Stoppages. In the average FPS, CQB game, this would serve merely to enrage the player, and probably get them killed instantly. When you're holed up in a belfry somewhere, the possibility of clearing a stoppage and taking another shot before the target moves off actually makes for better gameplay, without making the game unplayable. Remember, what you propose is, and always will be, closer to a simulation than a game. Something as specialised as sniping quite simply cannot be anything else. Besides, a well made simulation IS fun. I know I'd buy a sniper sim.

3. Wind compensation. Over large distances, >300m, crosswind is a serious consideration. You have to aim off by as much as the entire width of the target. Either make the wind gaugable by visual indicators (flags, etc), or have a gauge in the HUD.

4. Escape. Once you've "delivered the package", you aint gonna be popular around town. Priority should be given to a discreet and rapid retreat from the killing ground immediately after the shot. SO MANY games fail utterly to include this properly.

5. Planning. Before the actual operation, you should infiltrate the area, learn of guard houses and patrol routes, roadblocks, lines of sight from various buildings, the perceptiveness of the locals, and so on. Most importantly, find out where the target's actually going to be, and how well protected.
Also, you need to find a way to smuggle bulky weapons and ammo into the area without being arrested.

Take my advice and watch the Day of the Jackal sometime, the original, Edward fox version. You want the player to be going through all the motions the Jackal does.



"If you go into enough detail, everything becomes circular reasoning." - Captain Insanity

[edited by - Captain Insanity on May 19, 2002 3:29:17 PM]