An environment is provided. It could be extremely fancy and interactive, as most newer MMORPGs continue to strive for, or more milder and plain, such as a two-dimensional "look-down-on" system. Whatever it be, soon magic is created. What I mean by magic is the player-driven development of laws and lore that become one with the game. A world of "code" is set before man, he inhabits it and shapes its characteristics not with computing tools, but instead with nothing more than his imagination and communication with others in the same environment. A bunch of people that, for the most part don't know each other, are dropped into a fabricated world and in no time, they begin forming families and alliances, establishing norms and standards, creating legend and story for their lands. Geographical areas within the game develop reputations and "names" (ex. "orc lift") that weren't established as part of the game design from the beginning. Bands of fellow players come together and make a name for themselves that portrays certain values to others in the game when the name is mentioned or seen. Complicated governments and organizational structures are created. Players ultimately decide which cities, towns, and sites are popular to gather. Tales of where to find good "xp" become common knowledge as thought printed in the game manual. Internet sites and locations outside of the game begin to feed the game and speak of the game and its inhabitants as though it breathed life. In a very short while, a wood-frame structure of code is sheetrocked and shingled, and painted and furnished to become a truly unique home. This, to me, is the "magic" of the MMORPG. It is simply fascinating how people with, for the most part, a time-consumed, real life, devote so much of their time to a fantasy world, with its graphical limitations and slow communication methods, and exist in this make-believe realm, giving it life, and thus making it seem real. And as graphics, artifical intelligence, and interactivity continue to progress, this feeling of a true other-world existence will only grower stronger. Absolutely fascinating... It is this creation of something, an evolving, adaptive something, from nothing by the minds' of the players in a fantasy environment that intrigues me most about MMORPGs. How about you? What do you find most fascinating about MMORPGs? -Rob --> "Go sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up here!" [edited by - robininni on April 21, 2002 2:40:06 AM]

quote: Original post by Robininni
How about you? What do you find most fascinating about MMORPGs?

Nothing. They''re overhyped, boring pieces of crud - not because they''re MMO, but because they claim to be RPGs. The very idea of "places to find good ''xp''" is an indication of a bad RPG, because at that moment you break from your role, role ostensibly being the basis of Role-Playing Games...

The MMO paradigm is cool, but I''m sick of uninspiring combat-based and/or -oriented slashfests masquerading as RPGs. Can I engage in purely diplomatic, political or commercial interaction in an MMORPG? Can I in an RPG? No. Thence my lack of interest and excitement.

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quote: Nothing. They''re overhyped, boring pieces of crud.

I agree.

And I was almost going to say ''I agree as far as current MMORPGs are concerned'' but I''m afraid that the trend that is being set, will be one that is going to be followed by future MMORPGs. There''s money to be made, and there''s going to be pressure to perform. For publishers to accept new concepts, they will most likely compare them to existing games and add some features, instead of completely revamping the whole genre. I''m afraid that''s just the way things work. We might be lucky and there might be a publisher that wants to take a risk and somehow ends up with a perfect, different type of MMORPG which perhaps can completely change the genre... but chances are that new MMORPGs will simply rehash what''s been done.

Everquest, still one of the biggest MMORPGs as far as I know, so completely disappointed me, that I''m not even willing to give other MMORPGs a try UNTIL I hear from many different sources that a new MMORPG (and like OLUSEYI I don''t really consider any of these games ''rpg'') truly is different and does give an entirely new gaming experience. At that point only will I try to see if this new game comes close to my personal wants and needs.

Right now, the main element is still hack''n''slash for experience and level gain. That''s fine. But it''s not me. And it''s not thousands of other gamers out there. I think even those that at this moment are completely immersed in MMORPGs at times admit that they feel like they''re just playing what''s available, but would rather see something different. If somebody can find out exactly what that ''something different'' is and if they can make a publisher believe it too... Yummie. Until then... Crummy.

I think Shadowbane seems different with its focus on guildwar and its strategic elements. Sure, it still has the leveling thing, but it does not seem to be based around that. I agree that it, like all other computer games, is not about actual role-playing though.

It took a long time for pen and paper RPGs to evolve from simple hack''n slash/level RPGs, such as AD&D, to more refined products with focus on role-playing, such as Vampire: The Masquerade. It might happen with multiplayer CRPGs too, even if current computer interfaces may currently be a bit too crude to allow much actual role-playing.

I had the most amazing roleplaying experiences of my life in UO so I don''t know what you guys are going on about. I guess I was just lucky to know the right people and play on good server.
Though I can''t imagine doing some of the stuff we did in UO in any other MMORPG that''s out there at the moment.

And let''s not turn this into another argument over MMORPGs not being true RPGs. This has been discussed again and again and the general conclusion is a CRPG is not expected to be like a pen and paper one.

I don''t know, I wouldn''t say that MMORPGs are crap. I''d say they''re definitely interesting. I think though that I would say they are not really good RPGs. Alas, it''s true, you can not roleplay much in MMORPGs. I''d say though that this 50% the fault of the program. (IE Everquest, and UO are not extremely well designed for roleplaying) and 50% the fault of the rest of the people that play it. Sorry, but most people are not very good roleplayers, and would rather just improve their character for bragging rights. Even I''d say about 50% of those who DO play PnP games are not very good roleplayers. I''ve gamed with some people who were way more concerned with their stats in AD&D than their characters. I had one very good GM, who ran a game where we were amnesic, and did not know any of our stats, or even what we could do. So basically he handed us a paper with our name on it, and a list of inventory. We had to figure out the rest ourselves! =D (By looking in the mirror, trying to fight, etc.) This way, we were almost forced to roleplay basically! =D

So, are all MMORPGs doomed to not be "true" RPGs? I''d say no, but the ones that come out in the next 10 years are. I think until computer AI becomes a lot better, and we have better more realistic lifelike simulations, I think RPGs are going to be hackfests for the most part(and people seem to like them actually.) Basically it all comes down to the GM, and our GM technology is not quite there! =D Until servers have the power to tell everyone unique stories that you can fully interact with, we wont have "true" RPGs.

-=Lohrno

I mostly agree. Ive played EQ and AO, and never really got into either. It got old because you did the same thing over and over. Sat at the same hill and killed orcs until I die, then get my corpse and kill more orcs.

But I am interesting in upcomming MMORPGS. Expecially EVE (www.eve-online.com) and Citizen Zero (www.citizen-zero.com).

The most appealing thing about MMORPG''s is the potential of the genre. They just *seem* like they could be really cool, and when someone gets it right they will be. Theoretically they could be super fun and awesome.

You want to make it more realistic? Make it realistic.. you get 1 life.. when you die.. you''re dead.. game over..

See how many people are into hacking and slashing then. It would be more like the real world.. where ''heros'' who go out and slay the bad monsters are rare, and most people are shop keepers, or miners, or lumberjacks, or whatever. You gain experience slowly as a fighter or whatever

Who are you kidding? You actually think that most RPGs on the computer are anything but fancy leveling games with a little bit of story tossed in to catch the more sophisticated players?

Puzzles, killing, leveling. That's it for about 90% of them, even the old standbys like Bard's Tale and FF. Very rarely are the people who play them actually playing a 'role', they're more often 'beating a game'.

MMOGs give you a greater chance to role-play than any of the other so-called RPGs usually do. You think that list of three options (none of which you really see the character doing half the time) make it a role-playing game? Talk to my buddy who refuses to talk to anyone in anything other than Ogre in EQ because it's not part of his character.

The tools are there for an MMOG to easily be an MMORPG, it's the part where the player chooses to avoid the RP that keeps it from happening.

Lohrno had it right dead on though:

quote: I think until computer AI becomes a lot better, and we have better more realistic lifelike simulations, I think RPGs are going to be hackfests for the most part

If you want to dispute what I said earlier, then think about how good the AI is in most of the RPGs that you've played. Usually there is little or none.

[edited by - solinear on April 21, 2002 11:53:05 PM]