My sister got carded when she bought me Arcanum last week. (!?) What''s up with that? I haven''t really seen anything that would cause a stir (except for maybe the Madam Lil quests).

To answer the original post, yeah, people are too sensitive. Most "PC" arguments are crap, but the "to hell with the oversensitive" thing can be taken too far. There is another post in this forum talking about a game idea to beat up kids. In light of the game industry''s battles to avoid litigious morons who''s children commit school violence, even the idea of this game is insulting. Bad ideas happen, but the clown actually thought enough about this one to post it...and got a thumb''s-up from someone!

I am conservative to the core so I don''t alter my behavior or speech to be politically correct, but give me a break. Common decency should have stepped in at some point.

ShadeStorm, the Day_Glo Fish

You can''t have your cake and eat it, too. There is no line to be crossed because it''s impossible to draw the line in a position that makes everyone happy. I may disgusted with the idea of somebody making a game about a kid shooting up a school full of other kids and teachers, or with the hate-promoting games that have gotten some mainstream press lately (white supremecist games built on the Genesis engine), but I support their right to produce whatever game they want. As long as no actual people are physically hurt during the making of the game I support the right of any person to make a game about absolutely *anything* they want. No matter what it is I guarantee some people will buy it, too. IMO the bottom line with games is the same as with TV, radio, gambling, prostitution (voluntary) or just about anything else: you don''t have to play it, watch it, listen to it, do it, support it or agree with it, but you don''t have the right to tell me what I can play, see, hear, do or create.

I don''t think that one should restrain oneself from doing something because everyone won''t
approve of it. Furthermore, if people don''t like something, they won''t buy your game. You''re not
twisting their arm or anything, and the freedom to make a game implementing anything you want,
regardless of how offensive it is, is protected by the First amendment in the bill of rights. So you
can make any game you want, and everyone doesn''t have to buy it.
-Duke Lion

I understand that you can't make everyone happy, but I disagree that there is no line to cross. I'm not talking about making everyone happy. I could not possibly care less if everyone likes what I say or do; however, a rational adult is expected to follow certain rules in "the western world". if the racial shoot-em-ups mentioned previously are not distributed, then yeah, you can do as you please.

The first time a minor gets their hands on it or it is sent to someone who is one of the games "enemies" you have broken the law. I predict that there will not be too many of those games made because the courts will not support the distribution of hate propaganda whether available by download or otherwise. You can say it is allowed by the first amendment if you like but actual judges will make that decision, and they have already started taking a stand against racially motivated practices.

The first amendment does not protect your right to make anything you want. It protects "freedom of expression" (...among other things), and to claim it as a defense you are saying that you wish to "express" the ideas presented in the game. Looking to the "hurt the children" game, if you were to try to claim freedom of expression they would most likely deny your claim and make you go to therapy. You aren't allowed to express that.

You do not have the "right" to advocate the infringement of another's rights based on sex, age, skin color, ethnic origins, or religion. You can indeed make the game. You open a whole new can of worms when you make it publicly available.

ShadeStorm, the Day_Glo Fish

Edited by - ShadeStorm on March 11, 2002 7:02:24 PM

ShadeStorm,

You''re wrong. Even racist speech is protected by the US constitution, as it should be. The US distinguishes between hate speech and hate crimes. Planting a burning cross in front of somebody''s lawn is a hate crime, depicting a burning cross in a movie is not. There''s a difference.

But you can''t pass out literature that makes it sound like a good idea to children and black people. You can''t stand outside a synogogue and pass out little yellow Stars of David.

We aren''t talking about a game that shows people killing for racist reasons (like your movie). We''re talking about a game in which you kill for racist reasons.

Some speech is NOT protected by the first amendment. Go to a local airport, say the word "bomb", and see if you can count to ten before a guard or police officer approaches you. I''ve seen people thrown out of airports pre-9/11 for making jokes about a subject that isn''t funny. What makes this any different?

As a side note, this will be my last post on the topic. I''ll check responses since I''d like to know what people have to say, but I don''t think it''s worth an actual argument over.

quote: Original post by ShadeStorm
But you can't pass out literature that makes it sound like a good idea to children and black people. You can't stand outside a synogogue and pass out little yellow Stars of David.

yes you can. of course i wouldn't recommend it...

quote: We aren't talking about a game that shows people killing for racist reasons (like your movie). We're talking about a game in which you kill for racist reasons.

why did you kill all those orcs? c'mon, i know you did! everyone has at some point... oh, let me guess, it isn't racism if the race you hate doesn't actually exists...
seriously, though... you could make a game where you kill for racist reasons. it is sick and wrong, but still legal.

quote: Some speech is NOT protected by the first amendment. Go to a local airport, say the word "bomb", and see if you can count to ten before a guard or police officer approaches you. I've seen people thrown out of airports pre-9/11 for making jokes about a subject that isn't funny. What makes this any different?

threatening someone is an exception to this "freedom of expression". the only reason for this is because they don't know if you are kidding or not. they have the safety of all the people there to worry about; this is completely different and you know it . you ARE allowed to offend people; you ARE allowed to say racist and/or otherwise distasteful, rude, horrible things. get over it.

quote: As a side note, this will be my last post on the topic. I'll check responses since I'd like to know what people have to say, but I don't think it's worth an actual argument over.

EDITED BY MODERATOR don't talk if you can't defend your point of view.

EDITED BY MODERATOR: Krez, don't post if you can't avoid making personal attacks.

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

[edited by - Wavinator on March 13, 2002 8:49:29 PM]

[edited by - Wavinator on March 13, 2002 8:50:25 PM]

It''s not illegal to pass out literature that makes it sound like it''s a good idea to kill children and black people, though you may have trouble dealing with angry people. It''s not illegal to put a star of david on the bumper of your car, though many people will get angry at you and flip you a bird (or worse).

A game in which you kill for racist reasons is likewise not illegal. It might receive strong opposition from people, and it might never be sold at Walmart, but it''s not illegal. It doesn''t matter what children and black people think of it, a game where you kill people for racist reasons is not illegal.

Yes, it''s illegal to use the word "bomb" in an airport, but that doesn''t mean racist games are illegal. Apples and oranges.

quote: Original post by a person
the original quote:

"Computer games don''t affect kids, I mean if Pac man affected us as kids, we''d all be running around in darkened rooms, munching pills and listening to repetitive music." - Kristian Wilson of Nintendo, Inc. in 1989

Sounds like a rave to me.

Just change your genric, non-identifyable city to Baghdad or all of Libya and that should clear up the problem