is it the uke the one that''s thrown? I''t been about 8 years since I took any aikido, but now that I think about it, you''re right. There are some throws with the name Nage in them, which would indicate that nage means "throw", so therefore the nage is the thrower and the uke is the throwee...ummm, if that''s a word One thing that actually got me out of that particular aikido dojo however was the attitude of the sensei''s. I actually pointed out to them how Ueshiba himself had required that all students, including brand new beginners were required to wear hakamas. O''sensei said that the hakama was a representation of the 7 virtues of the samurai, and was a requirement for learning. When I told this to the senseis, they said hakamas had to be earned by becoming a black belt, and that this was America and things were different here. I basically just smiled and told myself to get out of there which I did.

Boy, thinking about this stuff really makes me wish I could go back and practice, I just wish I had more time.. By the way anonymous, what style did you practice? Ages ago I took Kodokai aikido, which if I remember correctly meant something about family. But I only took it for about 10 months. I was also taking some Shotokan karate (my main style which I studied formally for about 2 years), and have also taken a little Choy Li Fut and some practice sparring with some of my filipino friends in escrima. If I had the time, I really want to take up some authentic chinese gung fu, but I''m not exactly a spring chicken anymore at 30

I guess alot of my thoughts about game design have been deeply influenced by my martial arts exposure as well as some philosophy. Concepts like balance apply to more than just physical balance, but a mindset as well. To a true warrior, all aspects of combat must be considered, as there is no one killer move so too is there no one killer unit or killer PC. What I found most interesting about Aikido was the concept that you don''t really stop an attacker physically, but on a more basic fundamental level. You are actually defending against his intentions rather than the physical attack. It''s a diffucult concept to understand and even harder to implement. The idea of irimi movements (which if I remember right are going into attacks) are very unnatrual, but it really does make sense if you think about it. Tenkan movements feel more natural but require very good timing.

I remember sparring in a choy li fut class, and watching two senior students sparring with a Tai Chi instructor with whom we shared the kwoon. It was pretty hilarious because these senior studnets, though very physically adept were getting their asses handed to them by the Tai Chi sifu. The Choy Li Fut sifu kept screaming at the students asking why every time the Tai Chi sifu attacked, they retreated. So when it was my turn, I used alot of my aikido knowledge against the Tai Chi sifu. I fared better, but still found myself in quite a few Chin Na locks and quite a few takedeowns But I got a few licks in myself which was fun

But as I said, having a martial arts background has really changed my thinking about game design in many areas. My ways of thinking about balance are very very different than most people here, as well as my ideas about tactics and strategy. Not better maybe, but definitely different.

Great thoughts Dauntless!

Dauntless has hinted at one aspect of what one tradition calls enlightenment. In my travels/trial/tribulations I have come across four seemingly similar yet quite different interpretations of enlightenment.

As Dauntless stated his comments were from a Zen perspective. Zen is a form of mahayana Buddhism which is/was heavily influenced by war-centric Japan. I currently practice Japanese Ju-Jitsu and have practiced Aikido in the past. Zen''s influence on the martial arts and the normal Japanese citizen is different than its philosophical influence. Its influence on the lay praticitioner in Japan was that it was a method to center the mind, increase understanding of the world''s natural order (Dharma), teach them to not fear an untimely death (a big one to the Japanese), highten their reflexes and intellectual mastery and to give them a sense of spiritual peace. I think Dauntless covered this very well.

On the other hand, from a philosophical viewpoint Zen masters will point out that if you sit (meditate) to gain enlightenment then you will never gain it. If you sit to gain anything then you will never gain enlightenment. You sit to express your true being and that is all. From this perspective enlightenment is not to be used as a method for personal gain nor are its benefits to be exploited or even realised. A true Zen master would probably face death by the sword than to harm a living being if it were in his power to do so. He may walk on water at times but he will do so to teach his students, not to show off his accomplishments.

This is very similar in my experience to one of the other interpretations of enlightenment, which I''ve experienced in the Therevada school of buddhism and is also practiced by some Hindu Yogis (practicioners of Vedanta I believe) It is concerned with cultivating compassion. BTW: I practice Vipassana meditation and adhere more fully to Theravada buddhism than any other philosophical system.

This approach does not care if there are practical physical/mental benefits to enlightenment. The goal is spiritual, to end suffering and to live on this planet in complete compassion, not necessarily understanding every aspect of everything (though they admit that this might be a side effect of enlightenment) but rather keeping an absolutely open mind to the cause and affect relationships in the world in order to avoid suffering for ourselves and to help others avoid suffering. In order to avoid suffering one must "see clearly", which is to say, avoid free the mind of delusion. The un-obvious becomes obvious. The lies are transparent. Suffering is _very_ evident and sickness is easily seen. This approach also admits that there may be special powers that accompany enlightenment but these should not be the goal of pursuit.

The next approach is the Taositic approach and some of the Yogic approaches. This approach is similar to the zen approach,and indeed zen comes from the chinese word and philosophy Chan and was heavily influenced by Taosim.

Taoism teaches that there is a way to the world, a natural un-ending way, Tao, that is neither good nor bad, moral nor immoral. They teach that through observation of the natural world one can come to understand the ways of the world fully. The Tao Te Ching (on of the foremost Taosit manuscripts ) says that a theif who follows Tao will be an excellent theif. It is also very karmic in saying that what one does will affect one''s future circumstances indirectly; one reaps what one sews.

The practice of Tai Chi is fundamentally a Taoist approach. It teaches harnessing the natural energies of the world for your own purposes. I''ve heard of Tai Chi masters who can walk on snow without leaving footprints, punch people across rooms (my old Tai Chi sensei did this to people, even Bruce Lee would do this), read minds (with Chi-Qong), etc. This is similar to the feats of wonder that yogis have reputedly achieved (reference Paramanhansa Yogananda.) This is understanding the nature of the world well enough to utilize its full power.

The final interpretation of enlightenment is omniscience. This is a very western approach and kind of a superstitious approach. Whereas the other approaches say, we''ll see what we experience ourselves when we get there, this approach says, enlightenment is A, B, C, and D. A very immature (philosophically speaking) approach. I don''t recommend using this approach in your game.

I''d recommend that you use the Martial Zen or the Taositic approach which would include greater abilities to heal peoples, walking on water, and diffusion of violence (Win a battle with words not with weapons.) A truely enlightened being should not die by the sword (indeed the Buddha died from bad milk.) The character could detect lies, sense evil, sense good. possibly read minds. They could also focus intently to cast spells quicker, and possibly heal themselves, and their physical and mental recovery times would be quicker. On the physical side it could give a weapon wielder "no mind." To reacte without thinking is the martial artist''s greatest accomplishment, so you could give players hightened speed, greater damage, etc.

In my experience, being near someone who''s really high up there on the spiritual scale, makes me want to give away all my possessions and help people. It makes me abhorr violence and yearn for the peaceful contemplative life, content with what I have, but what kind of game would that be?

My one warning is that if the players find out that this character gives them these great bonuses they will keep going back to him as "spell pumper" of sorts everytime they have a difficuly task ahead. Oh yeah, how long does the affect last. Well in my meditation retreat experience, the more retreats I go to the longer the resultant peace is afterward. Maybe the more time a player spends with this person, the longer the affects.

That was my 10 dollars. Sorry if I got off topic. This topic mixed my three favorite subjects, buddhism, martial arts, and computer games. I couldn''t help it.

RandomTask

quote: Original post by Sean99
So, what new abilities would you expect your character to acquire if a RPG informs you that your character has reached the pinnacle of mortal wisdom?

Your character gives up fighting and thuggery, leaves his weapons, armor, and other worldly possessions by the wayside, and wanders off to become an ascetic philosopher in the woods. Game over.

you could make it the final goal to get to clyde, a quest for enlightenment. Or maybe as a bonus/secret mode where you are invincible and all powerful (as if it were an invincibility code or the ''big cheat'' on turok games or maybe ''god mode'' like in fps). or maybe there could be multiple spiritual beings who each enhance a different power/stat temporarily or permanently.
just some of my thoughts

Heres my two cents, where''s my reciept!

Reason would claim that someone who is allknowing will soon fail to find anything left to live for. So what about killing him off?

http://envy.nu/anykey

Hum, I belive that those who reach Clyde ( which should be more like a cultish thing to those normal folk of the world who don''t understand the reasoning behind it),should have a completely new goal. Ok, they reach Clyde, they accend, now their goald are different. If you where God or and angel, what would you be doing? You wouldn''t be fighting, or would you? Against what and why? I think at this point it''s you opprotunity to define what is beyond elightenment.
An interesting concept I have played with on this subject is the idea that :

"God creates the universe and then seeks to expereince the limits living within himself so that he may accend destroy and create it again."

Maybe this is what your enlightened persons could be heading towards in someway?


peace

-Sage13

Thanks for the replies everyone. There responses are more in-depth than I was expecting and make me wish I had checked back here sooner so I didn''t have to cover everything in one response.

I''m learning more here about the Eastern philosphies than I was expecting (not that I''m complaining). I shouldn''t have casually used ''Zen'' as a general term for what I meant before I was more informed as to its specific meaning.

quote: I don''t think it would grant that many powers other than as you mentioned, a sense of peace and calm

That''s part of the reason why I''m reluctant to allow the player access to Clyde. While most people in real life are looking for that inner peace, there aren''t a lot of ways to manifest it in game play.

One thing I should clear up is that I don''t want the PC to walk away from an encounter with Clyde with forced characterization (as I stated before, Clyde is primarily for the benefit of the NPCs, and if I can''t make him work believably for the player, the player will simply be denied access to him). So while Clyde''s main purpose is not as a source of a power-up, that is his effective purpose as far as the player is concerned.

With that in mind, I will probably take a closer look at some of the philosophies mentioned in which enlightenment does not come with a moral code (which would then have to be forced upon the player). That would be Tao and Tai Chi, correct?

quote: My one warning is that if the players find out that this character gives them these great bonuses they will keep going back to him as "spell pumper" of sorts everytime they have a difficuly task ahead

I plan on making Clyde very hard to reach in the first place, and I''m considering making his benefits a once-in-a-lifetime boon. This isn''t entirely relavent, so I haven''t mentioned this yet, but one of the rumors surrounding Clyde will be that the gifts he bestows are only the product of some drug he administers. If this turns out to be true, then "spell-pumping" abuse could be offset be having Clyde''s disciples going through withdrawl when the benefits wear off.

As far as suggestions for enhanced abilities, they all seem to boil down to enhanced perception, healing, and acquisition/evaluation of knowledge. Am I missing anything? (I intentionally left out omniscience, which I am not equating with enlightenment). I might be able to work with that.

Thanks,

Sean