DrJohnB: just a quickie about the original question (I''ve only scanned through this thread due to the annoying jabber going on...so hopefully this hasn''t already been mentioned). You''ll find that warez sites will almost always divide up a program into about 60 zip/rar files, and they link them all to one page. All the links redirect to various CGI scripts and popup windows advertising a slew of things, and you''ll find that out of the 60 links (to the program chunks), only a handful don''t actually work. Of course it usually takes a while to find out that some don''t work, by which time you''ve absorbed most of the advertising. I ask you this: Is it always the same links that aren''t operational? Does the webmaster have, at any one time, the entire program (or even a ripped version) completely available for download? Usually, for high profile warez sites, the answer is no. By visiting the site often enough, eventually you might be able to cobble together enough program fragments to you yourself have an illegal copy of the software.
Doesn''t make it right.
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Why don't "Warez" sites get shut down? <more text>
Well, here''s my 2 cents from someone who is living in an Asian country... home of all that is copied... sheeesh.
Let''s look at the point Mith brought up saying that in the Orient can''t afford to buy the original in the first place, this is abosolutely true. In Malaysia, all our Original software are IMPORTED not manufactured locally sure all our EA stuff is manufactured in Singapore then shipped in here. But they treat software as if it was a premium I bought The Sims for RM119(US31) with that money one can buy 19 Big Mac meals at McDonalds!
Comparatively we have a Taiwanese Game Company (Softworld) that does it''s manufacturing and packaging in Malaysia, therefore Taiwan games sell for RM39 (US10) only about 6 Big Macs. Which is much cheaper...... though good games from Taiwan are hard to come by, I''ve only played 2 which I really thought were worth my money.
Another thing that makes people choose pirated games over originals is that we have ZERO return policy here, I''ve heard before that in the US or UK you can return games which you dislike for other stuff. But here if it ain''t broken you''ll have to live with it. I have a lot of stinky stuff sitting on my shelf, it really hurts to pay a huge sum of money buy a game then finding out it stinks!!! And you can''t do nuthin about it!
Piracy is also the main reason why when I tell my relatives I''m gonna make/sell a game one day and they just laugh at me.
I''ll say that the only good that has come out of piracy, by having easy access to programs like Photoshop, Director the students here are able to learn how to use them proffesionally before even hitting the workforce. Which is when hopefully... they''ll get originals. Oh, before anyone asks it''s almost impossible to get academic versions here.
Just my 2 cents.
ps. RM1 = USD3.8
Thanks to the guy who wrote about the Big Mac factor in an email I read before. :D
-------------------------
-Now Working on Pokemon like Engine!
Let''s look at the point Mith brought up saying that in the Orient can''t afford to buy the original in the first place, this is abosolutely true. In Malaysia, all our Original software are IMPORTED not manufactured locally sure all our EA stuff is manufactured in Singapore then shipped in here. But they treat software as if it was a premium I bought The Sims for RM119(US31) with that money one can buy 19 Big Mac meals at McDonalds!
Comparatively we have a Taiwanese Game Company (Softworld) that does it''s manufacturing and packaging in Malaysia, therefore Taiwan games sell for RM39 (US10) only about 6 Big Macs. Which is much cheaper...... though good games from Taiwan are hard to come by, I''ve only played 2 which I really thought were worth my money.
Another thing that makes people choose pirated games over originals is that we have ZERO return policy here, I''ve heard before that in the US or UK you can return games which you dislike for other stuff. But here if it ain''t broken you''ll have to live with it. I have a lot of stinky stuff sitting on my shelf, it really hurts to pay a huge sum of money buy a game then finding out it stinks!!! And you can''t do nuthin about it!
Piracy is also the main reason why when I tell my relatives I''m gonna make/sell a game one day and they just laugh at me.
I''ll say that the only good that has come out of piracy, by having easy access to programs like Photoshop, Director the students here are able to learn how to use them proffesionally before even hitting the workforce. Which is when hopefully... they''ll get originals. Oh, before anyone asks it''s almost impossible to get academic versions here.
Just my 2 cents.
ps. RM1 = USD3.8
Thanks to the guy who wrote about the Big Mac factor in an email I read before. :D
-------------------------
-Now Working on Pokemon like Engine!
although i totally agree pirating is wrong, as far as i can see, it''s perfectly fine, so long as you don''t get caught (my teacher once said "it''s not cheating if i don''t find out about it"). but then even if you do get caught, what''s likely to happen to you? if you ask me it''s absolutley nothing. if i could actually sell games, then i know i would be very annoyed to find out people were pirating them, but the difference between me and companies like ea is that i''m not a multinational company with millions of pounds. as it is, the games i make are done using the games factory, so i just giv em away free over the internet for anyone to play. after all, i have fun making them, and i hope others have fun playing them, and isn''t the whole point of having games fun? so long as some people buy the games big companies make, they can''t complain, but a word of warning:if you get a pirated version of a game, don''t ask for help on the game''s official website, because you''ll get caught, and flamed a lot. just so you know, i''m not speaking from personal experience there, i''ve just seen it happen. this is how i know not much happens if you get caught, but still, doing so isn''t the wisest of ideas.
Man, I think the only possible game I''ve pirated is FF3, for an emulator. The reason for this? You can''t buy it anywhere.
altair
altair734@yahoo.com
crawlegend.iwarp.com
altair
altair734@yahoo.com
crawlegend.iwarp.com
Well - I thought the same thing for a time (as DrJohnB''s original post), then I looked into legal aspects of it, and it seems not much can be done by the authorities, I agree with Mithrandir, about companies who develop rubbish complaining of loss of profits to warez - its just BS to cover up for the fact that they never sold any copies anyhow, and besides the figure they state as losing can *never* be accurate because it''s practically impossible to check the ''hits'' of every file downloaded from a warez site, or to know how many CD''s a guy may have ripped of a particular game and given to friends.
I don''t support piracy, I just hate some of the rubbish companies spout about profit loss and the like.
Take it easy,
-Mezz
I don''t support piracy, I just hate some of the rubbish companies spout about profit loss and the like.
Take it easy,
-Mezz
why do games companies complain about pirating? they should be like music companies and just accept it
why do games companies complain about pirating? they should be like music companies and just accept it
pyeo,
Ummm, the music companies don''t accept it. Look at the law suit against mp3.com from the RIAA. They aren''t accepting it. They are claiming that the new features of my.mp3.com are actually infringments of copyright. (But if they knew anything about "fair use" clauses it wouldn''t be a problem for mp3.com).
The music industry is actually fighting harder, they sued Diamond when the Rio came out, and they almost sued a whole bunch of cd-rom manufacturers when the first CD-R''s came out. So they do care. The software companies do to, but most of them aren''t multi-billion dollar companies that can go out and sue everyone they find violating their copyright.
-Omalacon
Ummm, the music companies don''t accept it. Look at the law suit against mp3.com from the RIAA. They aren''t accepting it. They are claiming that the new features of my.mp3.com are actually infringments of copyright. (But if they knew anything about "fair use" clauses it wouldn''t be a problem for mp3.com).
The music industry is actually fighting harder, they sued Diamond when the Rio came out, and they almost sued a whole bunch of cd-rom manufacturers when the first CD-R''s came out. So they do care. The software companies do to, but most of them aren''t multi-billion dollar companies that can go out and sue everyone they find violating their copyright.
-Omalacon
Oh wait, a good deal are Multi-Billion dollar companies (m$ for example). But when it relates to game designing companies they aren''t. But neither has accepted piracy, and it doesn''t look like they will any time soon. I don''t believe piracy hurts them as much as they claim, but it still does cause losses in sales and therfore hurts them. (Though I don''t think converting your cd collection into mp3''s so you can listen to them on your computer and not have to switch cd''s is illegal. See my comment about ''fair use'')
-Omalacon
-Omalacon
My thoughts:
MP3''s: Used correctly they can be a *great* way to promote interest in a new band. It reminds me of the 80''s when the "underground tapes" were being circulated of metal bands. A band from LA could be huge in Germany almost overnight because of the massive copy-and-send techniques that were being used by the bands and fans. Did it hurt them?....I might point out that METALLICA got their start like this. Yes, used improperly, MP3''s can be a horrible thing and can cause lost CD sales by artists.
Software: The same thing really. Demos (and in some cases maybe warez versions) of software can be a great tool to promote your company/projects. Does it hurt software sales? Sure, there have to be some cheap people that would rather download than buy software. But what were the numbers on Doom? Last I heard it was estimated that at it''s height of popularity there were 80 million machines with doom on it, yet they only sold a few million copies. So theoretically, ID lost hundreds of millions in sales. But look at all the people that *did* buy it because of the widespread popularity. ID certainly isn''t hurting for business now.
The differences in the two: In the software industry, everyone is pretty much paid well (even if the software is late, or flops). Even the entry level positions pay *way* more than most any other industry''s entry position. Now in the music world, the *label* makes a huge pile of cash, but the individual artists (unless they''re the musical equivalent of John Romero or Will Wright or something) usually don''t make much at all. Good friends of mine have released _multiple_ music CDs on major labels (Sony, Epic) and they''re still living in little apartments with several roommates, trying to make ends meet (some with day jobs). Do I think that pirating hurts them more than software? Perhaps, because each little bit helps in these cases. Software companies tend to complain about earning 10 million as opposed to 20 million. I have a tougher time worrying about that than I do my friend who''s the musician and is actually *hurting* for cash to do things like EAT and pay RENT. Not that it''s more right to steal from a game company or anything, but the fact is that stealing from musicians can have quicker, more life threatening results.
Just some thoughts. Sorry it''s so long. --Nolan
MP3''s: Used correctly they can be a *great* way to promote interest in a new band. It reminds me of the 80''s when the "underground tapes" were being circulated of metal bands. A band from LA could be huge in Germany almost overnight because of the massive copy-and-send techniques that were being used by the bands and fans. Did it hurt them?....I might point out that METALLICA got their start like this. Yes, used improperly, MP3''s can be a horrible thing and can cause lost CD sales by artists.
Software: The same thing really. Demos (and in some cases maybe warez versions) of software can be a great tool to promote your company/projects. Does it hurt software sales? Sure, there have to be some cheap people that would rather download than buy software. But what were the numbers on Doom? Last I heard it was estimated that at it''s height of popularity there were 80 million machines with doom on it, yet they only sold a few million copies. So theoretically, ID lost hundreds of millions in sales. But look at all the people that *did* buy it because of the widespread popularity. ID certainly isn''t hurting for business now.
The differences in the two: In the software industry, everyone is pretty much paid well (even if the software is late, or flops). Even the entry level positions pay *way* more than most any other industry''s entry position. Now in the music world, the *label* makes a huge pile of cash, but the individual artists (unless they''re the musical equivalent of John Romero or Will Wright or something) usually don''t make much at all. Good friends of mine have released _multiple_ music CDs on major labels (Sony, Epic) and they''re still living in little apartments with several roommates, trying to make ends meet (some with day jobs). Do I think that pirating hurts them more than software? Perhaps, because each little bit helps in these cases. Software companies tend to complain about earning 10 million as opposed to 20 million. I have a tougher time worrying about that than I do my friend who''s the musician and is actually *hurting* for cash to do things like EAT and pay RENT. Not that it''s more right to steal from a game company or anything, but the fact is that stealing from musicians can have quicker, more life threatening results.
Just some thoughts. Sorry it''s so long. --Nolan
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