Being a proud member of the Marine Corp I would have to solemly disagree like hell.

I''m sure there were many soldiers who lay shot upon the battlefield pondering to themselves "sheesh, what''s the point of the sniper?"

Well, there are only a few basic units in war:

You''ve got the ground-pounders, the cannon-fodder guys, the medics, the heavy weapons, and the snipers, (then the artillery, tanks, etc...)

It is far much more REALISTIC to shoot your enemy from further away so he can''t see you and you stay safe...


Besides, it''s not the game''s fault that you can''t avoid some snipers here and there. =)

~Dwarf

Snipers have their place. Particularly in realistic games and mods. I think the problem is that sniping is so simplified in the majority of FPS''s that someone with a low ping and a sniper rifle can unbalance the game.

I wanna'' ride on the pope mobile.

quote: Original post by Dwarf with Axe
It is far much more REALISTIC to shoot your enemy from further away so he can''t see you and you stay safe...

Of course, in most FPS, "staying safe" is not a real premium. Why bother? You can pop right back up, grab a nearby weapon, and off you go! In a game like Rainbow 6, however, people are generally a little more cautious and paranoid.



Dave Mark
Intrinsic Algorithm Development

Snipers have disadvantages too. In DoD specifically, their weapon is slow to reload and does not fire often. Not to mention that it realistically drops out of zoomed in scope mode between reloading. Sure, you have a pistol for just running around, but if you play a lot of DoD you can usually anticipate where the snipers will be and take them out with grenades or just sneak up on them.

I don''t play the sniper because it''s not my preferred form of gameplay (I''d rather zig-zag from cover to cover and try to not get hit, like in a real battle). As for snipers not playing a major role in combat, that''s a load of crap. In urban warfare a sniper on your side can make all the differenc in the world, as can having one taking you out.

To me, the best solution would be to limit the number of snipers allowed per side to two.

R.

I think this could be considered more of a level design problem than a game problem. Levels can be designed to be pro-sniper, anti-sniper, or neither. You''ve probably encountered too many pro-sniper maps. DoD in particular, because of it''s setting, results in many outdoor maps where sniping is fairly simple. Original Half-Life maps - where you''re indoors, and there are more corridors, etc - are most certainly not sniper-friendly.

There was one DoD map - Oslo, I think - which wasn''t that sniper friendly. It had a number of alleyways and tunnels, and buildings you could go inside; all this made it hard to snipe efficiently.

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates
- sleeps in a ham-mock at www.thebinaryrefinery.cjb.net

I think sniping is unbalanced (rather I should say unrealistic) in the way that game designers have designed them. In real life, snipers pretty much only exist in a few cases. Town to town fighting is a good example, as are forest clearings. However, snipers really only exist in small scale combat, not in large scale combat. Real life usage of snipers is very rare.....to be a Marine Sniper is one of the most diffucult positions to attain other than Marine Force Recon. In real life, snipers are also teamed up with a "spotter" in case he runs into close combat trouble, and also to keep an eye out. Real life sniping is done with just a few shots, and then moves away. The reason being that he will be discovered, and heavy artillery can be brought to bear on his position (either through IFV''s, or actual artillery).

Also, trying to hit someone in real life is FAR more diffucult than FPS make it out to be. In order to be a Marine Sniper, you have to be able to hit 90% of the time, a stationary human sized target at 1000m, and 80% of the time a moving target at 800m. Do you know how hard that is? FPS don''t take into consideration wind , bullet trajectory, or simple old ballistics. Just because you are aiming at his head doesn''t mean you are going to hit. Why don''t they factor in real world "jitter"? And why do FPS games make it one shot one kill? Unless you hit them in the neck or head, one shot isn''t always one kill.

So all in all, snipers are WAY imbalanced, and I agree entirely. Start putting these restrictions in place, and watch how quickly people won''t want to be snipers. FPS games make it far to easy to be one and as a result of the "cool" factor, have unbalanced their play.

Implementing sway like we saw in Deus Ex could be a good improvement.

quote: Original post by Dauntless
I think sniping is unbalanced (rather I should say unrealistic) in the way that game designers have designed them. In real life, snipers pretty much only exist in a few cases. Town to town fighting is a good example, as are forest clearings. However, snipers really only exist in small scale combat, not in large scale combat. Real life usage of snipers is very rare.....to be a Marine Sniper is one of the most diffucult positions to attain other than Marine Force Recon. In real life, snipers are also teamed up with a "spotter" in case he runs into close combat trouble, and also to keep an eye out. Real life sniping is done with just a few shots, and then moves away. The reason being that he will be discovered, and heavy artillery can be brought to bear on his position (either through IFV''s, or actual artillery).

Also, trying to hit someone in real life is FAR more diffucult than FPS make it out to be. In order to be a Marine Sniper, you have to be able to hit 90% of the time, a stationary human sized target at 1000m, and 80% of the time a moving target at 800m. Do you know how hard that is? FPS don''t take into consideration wind , bullet trajectory, or simple old ballistics. Just because you are aiming at his head doesn''t mean you are going to hit. Why don''t they factor in real world "jitter"? And why do FPS games make it one shot one kill? Unless you hit them in the neck or head, one shot isn''t always one kill.

So all in all, snipers are WAY imbalanced, and I agree entirely. Start putting these restrictions in place, and watch how quickly people won''t want to be snipers. FPS games make it far to easy to be one and as a result of the "cool" factor, have unbalanced their play.

Amen to that. Until bullet drop, windage, wound ballistics, and simple old jittering become common place in the FPS the sniper will unbalance the game. Particularly with a low ping. As it is now, a sniper rifle in most games is equivalent to a rail gun and a hell of a good zoom. Just stand still.

I wanna'' ride on the pope mobile.

If you take into consideration all of these factors when creating a game, sniping can be made into a more challenging yet rewarding experience. But the sniper rifles that gives the user perfect accuracy and zoom seem to me like poor design. Many of the newer games mentioned do have ways to increase the complexity of sniping, but what would happen if they were all combined together? The population of snipers would surely decrease, and even the most skilled of them would not be able to completely dominate any area.

If anyone is designing a new FPS and intends to use a sniping weapon, you should try to take some of these things into consideration. Even though sniping may be a perfectly legit way of warfare, I find it very frustrating along with many other people, and get tired of it very quickly. Balancing out the game a little more could potentially lead to a more enjoyable experience and longer replay value.

I liked Metal Gear Solid''s approach to sniping. In that game, when you were looking through the scope of the sniper rifle, not only was your FOV severely limited, but it would shake and jitter in time with very audible heartbeat and breathing sounds. You could pick up syringes which would slow down your heart and calm the nerves for a few moments so you could get off a clean shot or two. Applying this to an FPS, you could model the player''s heartbeat and respiration realisticly so that running speeds it up, and lying still slows it down. Hence, there is an incentive to lying still for extended periods. Since any sniper who''s position is discovered doesn''t tend to last very long, the sniper must make a choice: limit the rate of fire so his position is not discovered, or move frequently and lie still for a while until the heartbeat slows back down after the run. Either way, the number of sniper''s bullets flying around goes way down.
Of course, a sniper player could just get really good at aiming with a shaky crosshairs, but more power to them if they do; I have no problem with being cranially ventilated by a genuinely skilled player.