GeneralJist said:
@frob What do you think?

It's a business relationship, and you're best to remember that at every step.

Even when the publisher fronts you money, you are still hiring them. You're paying them extra for them to give you a loan. You pay for that money out of your sales, what would have been profit to you becomes the cost of that loan. They are basically taking the risk that you'll default on the loan if your book doesn't sell well, but it's still a business transaction.

The odds of a publisher agreeing to not just publish your book but also do significant additional work — basically the dream offer that writers hope for — are very low. You've got far better odds of an offer like that when the publisher comes to you.

GeneralJist said:
I was also a little put off, as it seems the person who called me didn't even read anything about my book, and asked me “so what's your book about?

That's something you absolutely need. Develop an “elevator speech”, a quick summary you could give while riding an elevator that you think could result in more sales. Even if you do get a good publisher you will still talk to people in the organization who need to get brought up to speed quickly. If your book succeeds you'll need to repeat the elevator speech thousands of times.

You'll also need to develop a full pitch for your book, for when someone hears your elevator speech and wants to hear more than the 30-second version. You'll likely be repeating it several hundred times if you're successful.

When someone asks you about your book, you'll want to be prepared with both of them.

GeneralJist said:
so, after a bit of basic research, it seems the above organization is a bit scamy.

The ones that seem most accessible usually are. The predatory companies make their money by churning through gullible people who are desperate for a deal and will take anything that seems plausible. ALWAYS have your contracts reviewed by a lawyer. It might feel like a big expense, but it's the bad contracts that are expensive. A bad contract locks you into an expensive deal that locks away not just your current book, but can siphon money out of every future project you complete. You might think “I'm saving myself $200 by doing it myself” but if they're a predatory company it can cost your entire future as a writer, or if you end up being successful in spite of it, a predatory contract can cost fortunes to escape from.

It's the exclusive publishers with all the gates and barriers that you really want to reach, and they have all those barriers to entry for good reason: because they're good publishers. You'll often need a friend-of-a-friend who knows about your work to introduce you to someone, and even then they can only provide an introduction and you'll need an amazing elevator speech and business pitch to get the deal.

ok,

Thanks guys!

The hunt continues.

I'm a pretty persistent person, so we shall see.

GeneralJist said:
The hunt continues. I'm a pretty persistent person, so we shall see.

So you're going to keep hunting for a unicorn publisher deal.

Tom Sloper said:

GeneralJist said:
The hunt continues. I'm a pretty persistent person, so we shall see.

So you're going to keep hunting for a unicorn publisher deal.

umm no, I'm going to hunt for a reasonable publisher deal that looks legit and doesn't put up any red flags.

lets say until the end of the month? ya maybe… end of this month?

If I don't get any leads I'll just bite the bullet and self publish.

The link I listed seemed like what you linked, a “vanity publisher”.

There is really no rush for my book to be out in the world, I also need to find an editor.

and FYI, I'm good at unicorn hunting and shooting in the dark. It's one of my super powers.

hmm,

so the 1st choice publisher got back to me to clarify, and indeed, they would want heavy edits, to remove most of the non mental health stuff, as that is their focus.

They also said if I did this, there is no guarantee they would publish, as they are very picky.

The question i have now is, is it better to target a specific market and genre? or is it better to cast a wider net?

thoughts?

So, I was just accepted by Dorrance publishing!

https://www.dorrancepublishing.com/1448-2/​​

To date, I have gotten 1 template rejection, and a soft rejection that wanted heavy edits to focus only on mental health.

I heard this publisher may be a bit expensive…

They seem to have a standard procedure that involves a lot of people. And obviously they all need to be paid.

Is there anything I should know about negotiation?

The link above walks through their standard procedure.

In terms of legal contract review and representation, are their specific lawyer types i should be looking for?

from my basic research, they have a lot of mixed reviews.

What about mental health? That‘s an interesting and thorny issue.

taby said:

What about mental health? That‘s an interesting and thorny issue.

Well my book specifically is about how games shaped my mental health, and all the stuff I sacrificed in the name of finishing.

But overall, I'm working on an initiative to bring mental health support to games and tech, so we, the vanguard of culture have safe spaces and people to talk to about how making the product has made them feel.

We as “developers” go through a very unique experience in terms of mental health, when we plan, develop, launch, and support our product.
The industry at large seems apathetic, and borderline abusive, as we sacrifice more and more in the service of our games.

Also the very “fluid" nature of contracts in our industry.

I volunteer on my local Suicide and crisis hotline, now networked with the national #988 initiative. where anyone in the country can find emotional support if they are in any kind of emotional distress. it focuses on crisis, mental health, and suicide, but the stress wee sometimes go through needs to be vented somewhere.

Apparently I've somehow become the tip of the spear.

A vast majority of psychologists only see the results of the “addictive” behaviors in our players, and are stuck treating that, stigmatizing games, social media, and all of our efforts. As some of you may have noticed, “video game addiction” is in the DSM V.

Most of us devs can art or code our way out of a paper bag, but we are lost when dealing with things related to psychology and mental health. (there was a thread here a few months ago on depression that blew up, but most people just don't have the knowledge or education to help.

I'm trying to see if I can bridge this gap, and try and bring this to GDC this year, we shall see.

So,

I just got the cost breakdown and contract from Dorrance publishing.

The cost they said for “full service” is $5,400.

the book is about 153,800 words

@frob is this reasonable?

it's a 2 year contract

Also it says they will do marketing in cost of $1,000 for the book on their end.

Anyone else with experience, please weigh in.

GeneralJist said:
The cost they said for “full service” is $5,400. … is this reasonable?

If you're willing to pay that, it IS reasonable. If you're unwilling to pay that, it's not reasonable. Trust your head and your heart.