Whats worse is that I have been discussing this with Australians, New Zealanders, English and a Canadian. All of which live in countries where they have been raised to not be familiar with fire arms(except maybe Canada).

What's worse is I've been discussing this with an American who has been raised to think that needing a weapon is a good way to live...

Don't be confused and think we want to keep guns because every one fears for their life. The self-defense angle is simply a tangible argument. And it is a beautiful way to live. I am going to venture to take a guess that you have never touched a gun of any type in your entire life. The idea of individual liberty and freedoms is much more attractive than the collective mind set that would aim to strip those freedoms to satisfy the group instead of the individual.

Whats worse is that I have been discussing this with Australians, New Zealanders, English and a Canadian. All of which live in countries where they have been raised to not be familiar with fire arms(except maybe Canada).

I'm an American here, and yea I've seen firearms. I'm not terribly familiar with them for a variety of reasons.

Don't be confused and think we want to keep guns because every one fears for their life. The self-defense angle is simply a tangible argument. And it is a beautiful way to live. I am going to venture to take a guess that you have never touched a gun of any type in your entire life. The idea of individual liberty and freedoms is much more attractive than the collective mind set that would aim to strip those freedoms to satisfy the group instead of the individual.

Well then the logical argument of having freedoms is that there should just be total anarchy where all freedoms exist. That doesn't quite work either. There are all sorts of things people aren't allowed to do so that we don't end up killing each other off quickly.

Don't be confused and think we want to keep guns because every one fears for their life. The self-defense angle is simply a tangible argument. And it is a beautiful way to live. I am going to venture to take a guess that you have never touched a gun of any type in your entire life. The idea of individual liberty and freedoms is much more attractive than the collective mind set that would aim to strip those freedoms to satisfy the group instead of the individual.

Except I reject that argument because the rest of the world gets on just fine without it.

More importantly I can think of two situations in my own life where, had guns been a thing in this country I would either have been killed and/or seriously injured.

The first being on the way home from a night out; friend of mine stops to make a phone call as he has noted the gates to the local TA Centre were open and he felt he should report it. I'm standing across the road from him when a guy who was standing slightly up the road wanders up, we have a brief conversation and then he askes if he can get a cig from me. I don't smoke and tell him so. He doesn't believe me and gets up in my face - I've had a bad week or so at this point so after asking him repeated to back away and telling me I don't have any cigs I snap, grab him by the throat and lift him slightly before bending him backwards over a railing and telling him clearly I don't have any cigs and he should fuck off and leave me alone.

I let go, guy gets pissed off and shouts something at me before storming back towards the house he came from; moments later he appears carrying two kitchen knives - at this point I'm about 150m away from the guy and thinking "fuck" and plotting my escape routes. In your alternative reality (aka USA) at this point he walks out with a gun and I'm REALLY fucked because I've no route which can get me out of line of sight before he can fire a few rounds in my direction.

Even if I was carrying it wouldn't have helped the situation - if I draw earlier he still potentially appears with a gun after I figure he has gone. If I draw when he comes out we now have (at best) a stand off where he is more likely to shoot due to being pissed off (and don't try to claim it wouldn't; recent news where a mom shot and kill her two teenage daughters in the street proves this happens) and I'm probably slightly too drunk to shoot back at distance anyway.
(Also likely hood of friend getting hurt or shots going in to houses near by due to inability to aim clearly due to drink and distance.)

End result; guns... no good!

Second situation;
Going out for a night a few weeks later, still in the 'shit is bad' point of life. Walking along with someone behind me who decides to trip me slightly from behind - no idea who this guy was, just some random on the street. Basically he didn't like the way I was dressed and was sick of 'people like you walking around like they own the place'. I told him to fuck off and kept walking; a few feet later I hear fast footsteps behind me and on instinct turn and kick catching him running up behind me. Tell him to fuck off again and keep walking.

About 400m later he meets up with a friend and now they are BOTH following me - at this point future isn't looking great so I made a run for it. Long story short they catch up to me, I don't react fast enough to the sound of running and get knocked down, take a few kicks and punches, they take the £20 I had on me and wander off. I go to A&E to get my head looked at as it was cut.

So, got a slight kicking... but lets add our friend Mr Gun in to the mix!

- Situation 1; I'm walking in front of him, he thinks "fuck this guy" and shoots me in the back somewhere. Game over.
- Situation 2; I draw on him after he trips me, he backs off a bit but still follows me and we still can loop back to situation 1.
- Situation 3; I draw, he backs off and follows, he meets up with his mate now two guys with guns are following me... I'm fucked.

End result; guns... no good!

In both cases someone, either myself because I fire first or him because he shoots me is going away and the other is potentially seriously hurt or dead. In both cases it is most likely to be myself who is hurt in those situations.

The much used "home invasion" is frankly not something we have to worry about - the fact you do, thus the need to be armed, is probably down to deeper social economic problems but America also refuses to address those so... MORE GUNS!

Finally; your police are armed because your population is armed. I'm sure you recall the news a few weeks ago where someone, having told the officer who stopped him that he was carrying, was shot and killed by said armed officer... yeah.. that REALLY works well for you guys.

Also, don't come the 'individual liberty and freedoms' line with me, because we both know that's also BS in the USA.
Sure, people are all for 'freedom' when it comes to white "Christian" dudes with guns... but omg! a woman wants to have an abortion! time to get all up in her rights! omg! two people of the same sex want to be together! time to get all up in their rights!

Amusing the 'guns = freedom!' and the 'only what liberty we say!' group have a tendency to overlap... so, yeah... we all know that particular point is a lie :)

Personally, I quite like the freedom not to walk down the street and worry about being shot so I don't need a weapon on me... :)

What country do you live in?

Story 1: That guy most likely wouldn't have/pull a gun over something like that as long as there's a strict enough legal consequence.

Story 2: This is actually a great use case for guns. In a situation where someone kicks me from behind, I'm going to shoot them through the heart before any more words are exchanged. Because you weren't able to do that, you got beaten + robbed.

Home invasions are certainly a possibility, usually over drugs/gangs... Which the people involved can't legally own guns anyway, most of the time.

Finally; your police are armed because your population is armed. I'm sure you recall the news a few weeks ago where someone, having told the officer who stopped him that he was carrying, was shot and killed by said armed officer... yeah.. that REALLY works well for you guys.

This was a HUGE mistake on the officers part, and he's currently on trial for it.

Also, don't come the 'individual liberty and freedoms' line with me, because we both know that's also BS in the USA. Sure, people are all for 'freedom' when it comes to white "Christian" dudes with guns... but omg! a woman wants to have an abortion! time to get all up in her rights! omg! two people of the same sex want to be together! time to get all up in their rights!

It's not BS, which is why we still have it. And no, pro-second ammendment people mostly support every non-felon owning a gun, not just Christian men. Even the black panthers use their second ammendment rights.

http://nypost.com/2016/07/12/new-black-panther-party-will-be-armed-during-rnc-protests/

http://www.vice.com/read/huey-does-dallas-0000552-v22n1

And yes, the obsession over Christian interpretations on abortion/same sex marriage are ridiculous, but hopefully that's coming to an end, but that's entirely seperate from guns.

That being said, it could be that your country's culture isn't really compatible with guns, which is certainly possible. It works out pretty well in the USA though.

Story 2: This is actually a great use case for guns. In a situation where someone kicks me from behind, I'm going to shoot them through the heart before any more words are exchanged.

Because clearly, tripping or kicking someone from behind is an offense worthy of the death penalty. Never mind that it could have been an accident, or a bit of friendly rough-housing from a friend whose presence you somehow missed because you weren't paying attention. Someone who physically touches me when I'm not expecting it obviously deserves to die.

I sincerely hope you can taste the sarcasm in the above paragraph.

Because you weren't able to do that, you got beaten + robbed.

In what world does a fear of getting robbed (or actually getting robbed, for that matter) justify executing someone? Are human lives not worth more than one's material possessions in the US?

This was a HUGE mistake on the officers part, and he's currently on trial for it.

Yes, it was a mistake. But it's a mistake that couldn't have happened if your populace didn't feel this bizarre need to arm itself, requiring police officers to be armed.

It works out pretty well in the USA though.

As a Canadian, from up here it really looks like it doesn't. Especially if, as it seems to me, the prevalence of guns is encouraging the (frankly terrifying) attitude that small offenses merit lethal response from civillians, never mind the police.

Story 2: This is actually a great use case for guns. In a situation where someone kicks me from behind, I'm going to shoot them through the heart before any more words are exchanged. Because you weren't able to do that, you got beaten + robbed.

First, let me say! YES! It's back. And better than before!

Second, that's a terrible use case for guns. A kick in the back is not grounds for execution. It's grounds for an asswhuppin. A thorough one. It's grounds for jail time. It's grounds for wages garnished for pain and suffering. But not for death. I'm sorry, but that's just stupid. And yes, I live in the US.

Yes, it was a mistake. But it's a mistake that couldn't have happened if your populace didn't feel this bizarre need to arm itself, requiring police officers to be armed.

I'll have to disagree with that. Given that all sorts of unarmed folks have died at the hands of police, the "bizarre need" doesn't really factor in. It's just a flimsy excuse to shoot first and deal with a trial that you'll be acquitted of later.

@phantom

When did "white Christians", gay marriage and abortion come into play when talking about the second amendment? My line on individual freedom and liberty was to be applied to guns in the context it was presented. People who pull the "white Christian" card are the true racist. Don't start talking to me about race, implying America is a racist nation, we are the most accepting country in the world. The only difference is, we expect you to pull your weight. We like hard workers and people who are willing to sweat. That's why immigration boomed in the US during its foundation. Immigration today is based off of a nanny state mentality where illegals are using the welfare meant for our own citizens. The majority of immigration today is for the promise of free citizenship and a financial safety net meant for US citizens.

People who use race in arguments are the actual racists. Ok, my tangent tossed to the side.

To the point.

Your stories are unfortunate, it is unfortunate that their are people who exists that conduct themselves in the manner you described. I am confused though, does your country not convict and penalize criminals in accordance with the law? If someone breaks the law with a gun, they will serve penance, just like any other crime. If somebody uses a gun in a violent matter(usually obtained illegally), they will be punished accordingly. You are acting as if everyone walks around shooting each other for fun. Violence is on the bottom rung as far as guns purposes are concerned. You immediately apply worse case scenarios involving guns to your personal circumstances because you have an irrational fear of them.

Because clearly, tripping or kicking someone from behind is an offense worthy of the death penalty.

If killing someone can prevent the assault, yes, it is.

Yes, it was a mistake. But it's a mistake that couldn't have happened if your populace didn't feel this bizarre need to arm itself, requiring police officers to be armed.

The fault of this appears to lie with the officer, not the person who was legally armed. That's the only part that needs to be addressed.

As a Canadian, from up here it really looks like it doesn't.

Canada's gun laws are very similar to ours, really. But the cultural difference creates a huge gap in gun crime between the 2 countries.

In order to understand how to address gun crimes from in the USA, you need to look at where it's located, which is in large cities with high felon populations. If previous felons are commiting the vast majority of these crimes, it would stand to reason that the simplest solution would be not releasing violent felons.