Your flower shop example is wrong.

No its not. Have you even looked into it?

Yes it is.
YOU attributed to ME a position I would NEVER take.
Ergo your position that I would be "one of those people" is wrong.

I also don't know why you are quoting numbers at me; my point was people in the USA can keep on shooting each other, it doesn't impact me.
I wasn't arguing death rates, if people should or shouldn't have guns, or any thing you've apparently dreamt up in your paranoid percussion complex of a brain.

I all I've said is "the gun debate is over. the gun lovers have won".

It seems you don't like the reason I said why you've won, because you've decided to attack at every turn, including failing to answer my 'what has changed' question, because my 'nothing changed' was apparently not right?

So yeah, you've won, the deaths of children with no change proves it.
Go out and shoot a few rounds or whatever it is you guys do, I'll be in the UK worrying about if my train will be on time on Monday, not if I need to be packing a weapon to leave the house which seems to be the worry in the USA...

(JK, I won't be worrying about the train at all...)

Banning assault weapons and closing the gun-sale loop-hole? Sounds good to me.

Criminals will find their way to gun shots always. It literally would only- prevent accidents and make police less hostile and more calm.
But it would make terror/criminal tragedies more impacting - at the very least.
Also homicides would be much harder to get resolved since a lot of murderers buy legal weapons in legal shops that are very trained to cooperate with investigators and police.
What'd be not the case of a flourishing black gun market.

Are those your conclusions after witnessing Australia enact an all-out ban on guns (which isn’t even what is being proposed)?
I’m guessing you did not conduct this study: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/23/australias-gun-laws-stopped-mass-shootings-and-reduced-homicides-study-finds

Not only do you not have a point regarding gun violence, you add on top of that the fact that police would stop killing everything in sight and there would be fewer accidents.

The only thing stopping change is people with defeatist attitudes such as your own.
“The solution wouldn’t be perfect, so let’s just keep the terrible system we have.”

Give me a break.


L. Spiro

It took me 30 seconds to google a retort study.

http://crimeresearch.org/2013/12/murder-and-homicide-rates-before-and-after-gun-bans/

If people don't have guns to murder with, they will find a different way to do it. Guns are not the problem.

How many "Columbines" have we had? I can only recollect one in Dunblane, Scotland nearly 20 years ago

And that caused a change in the law with regards to small amount of guns which could be owned.

Even the police don't carry guns around except for special circumstances, special raids... et cetera ....

Indeed, and any death is investigated backwards and forwards to find out if it was indeed required (and are also rare events in and of themselves).

The police actively push back against being armed on a day to day basis - even when police are injured or killed in the line of duty the federation have consistently said 'no' to weapons as it undermines the 'policing by consent' system.

CIA world factbook. UK ranked higher(60th) in death rate overall than US(93rd) as of 2015. Oh yeah not to mention other "gun free safe zones" such as Canada(81st), Spain(68th), France(65th), Sweden(59th), Japan(54th). So on and so forth...

you would get more credibility if you site the source of that info (btw don't tell me to search myself). Maybe the wordings of the stats would also be very important too because its literally impossible for the gun crimes and gun related deaths rate in the UK to be higher than in the US, we just don't that many guns in the streets to achieve that!

And even if I read it black and white - I'm more likely to believe they plucked the stats out of the thin air for propaganda purposes more than anything else

There just isn't that culture (or the need to warrant the situation) where a section of the population feel they have the right to need and own guns for protection. Protect from what? Yes guns still do exist on the streets of the UK but of the few that exist nearly 100% these are owned illegally. The logic doesn't just stack up. The fact that people are not crying out to own guns here in the UK speaks for itself. How many "Columbines" have we had? I can only recollect one in Dunblane, Scotland nearly 20 years ago

Even the police don't carry guns around except for special circumstances, special raids... et cetera ....

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2066rank.html

Overall death rate, guns are not specified.

An all out ban of guns, or even an assault weapons ban, would be very difficult to enact. Why? There's so damned many guns already in circulation, most of them legally owned. There's more guns than there are people in the US. Unfortunately, Phantom is right. Nothing will change. There's simply not enough political willpower to actually enact gun control with much teeth to it.

CIA world factbook. UK ranked higher(60th) in death rate overall than US(93rd) as of 2015. Oh yeah not to mention other "gun free safe zones" such as Canada(81st), Spain(68th), France(65th), Sweden(59th), Japan(54th). So on and so forth...

you would get more credibility if you site the source of that info (btw don't tell me to search myself). Maybe the wordings of the stats would also be very important too because its literally impossible for the gun crimes and gun related deaths rate in the UK to be higher than in the US, we just don't that many guns in the streets to achieve that!

And even if I read it black and white - I'm more likely to believe they plucked the stats out of the thin air for propaganda purposes more than anything else

There just isn't that culture (or the need to warrant the situation) where a section of the population feel they have the right to need and own guns for protection. Protect from what? Yes guns still do exist on the streets of the UK but of the few that exist nearly 100% these are owned illegally. The logic doesn't just stack up. The fact that people are not crying out to own guns here in the UK speaks for itself. How many "Columbines" have we had? I can only recollect one in Dunblane, Scotland nearly 20 years ago

Even the police don't carry guns around except for special circumstances, special raids... et cetera ....

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2066rank.html

Overall death rate, guns are not specified.

Wait, you're using death rates to back up your claims that guns aren't the problem? How about looking at actual gun homicides, which are actually relevant?

Death rates have so many other factors involved that it makes no sense to actually even bring that in to this.

Not only do you not have a point regarding gun violence, you add on top of that the fact that police would stop killing everything in sight and there would be fewer accidents.

I know that prohibiting gun holding will also have positive effects, the ones I mentioned, but I think that the police awereness is not that grounded I believe, and that accidents are. It would be great if those went off, but to outweight them with gun black market, targeted (unmassing) murderings, and some form of a deep loss-of-air is the balance to wish for? I do not know, I try to specify Pros and Cons. Thanks for providing the study, that, may be a subject to ridiculization here later on ;)

@deltaKshatriya

Because the argument seems to be how guns are so tragic and senseless and cause so much death. Their are much worse things to worry about than gun violence. Guns are the least of the problems. Dig for the facts, I beg of you. Gun homicide counts for less than 1% of the US annual death rate.

According to CDC, their were 2,596,993 deaths in 2013 in the US. In 2012, according to the FBI their were 8,855 gun homicides. One year separating these facts, but you can guess that the trend will follow over a single year time period. LESS THAN 1%

That includes suicides as well, which are more than 1/2 of gun fatalities in the USA, justified shootings, and gang violence where the intent was to kill a rival gang member.

All of which Americans really don't need to worry about unless they're putting themselves in that situation.

That includes suicides as well, which are more than 1/2 of gun fatalities in the USA, and justified shootings.

Yes, this is important aspect. A lot of people is attracted to end their life by a gun, mainly if the gun is not an absolutely anonymous stranger object.

People do what they do, we cannot move everyones arms and legs. But yes, this should not be a tertiary issue at all!

Thanks for providing the study, that, may be a subject to ridiculization here later on ;)

I’m not interested in the debate on guns (have no position), and it was not my study.


L. Spiro